Daycare Helper Contract

[Greenshadow]

If I hire someone to help me every day, how do I know that they wont quit? I mean, if I take someone in I will need to take in a few more kids to cover her pay. So if I bring in two more kids, I will be over my ratio without the helper. Is there such a thing as having her sign like atleast a 6-month contract saying she wont quit? I know that sounds strange to be able to say you wont quit when you never know what might come up in the future, but as providers, you do understand what Im trying to do (cover my arse for ratio's)?

[professionalmom]

Originally Posted by Greenshadow

If I hire someone to help me every day, how do I know that they wont quit? I mean, if I take someone in I will need to take in a few more kids to cover her pay. So if I bring in two more kids, I will be over my ratio without the helper. Is there such a thing as having her sign like atleast a 6-month contract saying she wont quit? I know that sounds strange to be able to say you wont quit when you never know what might come up in the future, but as providers, you do understand what Im trying to do (cover my arse for ratio's)?

I am very interested in this question as well since I am pregnant with twins and am considering hiring an assistant for the initial postpartum period and possibly longer to cover me for the ratios, too. However, I do think you should definitely have at least a 2 week notice of termination, so that way you would (hopefully) have time to find a replacement. I would probably for a 3 week notice, just in case you need to give 2 weeks to a DC family as a result of the assistant quitting.

[nannyde]

You can write it but you can't inforce it.

It's very risky to base the number of kids you have on another adult unless you KNOW them really well and know their work ethic AND you have a good back up in place. Either someone to fill in their shoes or parents willing to keep the kids home when they don't come.

[Greenshadow]

Originally Posted by nannyde

You can write it but you can't inforce it.

It's very risky to base the number of kids you have on another adult unless you KNOW them really well and know their work ethic AND you have a good back up in place. Either someone to fill in their shoes or parents willing to keep the kids home when they don't come.

I do have my sister who lives relatively close so if something were to fall through and I lost my helper, my sister is willing to step in and help me until I find someone else. I would just really like to have the helper sign something though. I like the two or three week notice idea!

[DCMom]

You don't know they won't. It's the risk you take, I guess. When I found that I would need an assistant, I put the word out to provider friends, my dc parents, my neighbors, that I was looking for an assistant. I also put an ad on craigslist.org and barefootstudent.org to get interested parties. Then I interviewed and interviewed; I interviewed probably about 10 women before I found the right one.

In my situation I had two families who were having babies at the same time which bumped me into the next license category. Rather than let a family go, I hired an assistant to cover the increase in number of kids. So far, so good~I am still full one year later and clients seem to appreciate that there are two adults here.

I basically took my parent contract and used it as a guide for an employee contract. I included things like job description, daily schedule guideline/expectations, wages & payroll (defined overtime, pay day, vacation and sick time, paid holidays, probation period, breaks, etc), staff development and training, cell phone/smoking/drug/weapons & grievance policies, termination of employment, etc.

The last section was basically an employment acceptance that we both signed. It is evaluated annually on or about her anniversary date. I think if you have some sort of contract it makes you more professional and business like; to them they are signing a contract, they may thing twice before quitting.

I hope this helps!

[Greenshadow]

That is what is happening with me too. I have two moms who are due in the Fall. Im going to need an assistant.

DCMOM, Can I have your contract that you use for your employee?? I'd love to see it!! Pretty please.

[QualiTcare]

a contract would do absolutely nothing for you. anyone can quit a job at anytime for any reason and you can fire them at anytime for any reason AND don't even have to tell them WHY.

so, what would a contract do for you? what would you do if they quit without notice - sue them? that still doesn't fix your ratio problem.

i don't know if you could find anyone who would even sign a contract like that OR if it would be enforceable considering all the employment laws there are.

[nannyde]

I've had a SA for 16 years. I've never had a contract. I have done checklists. Then the only question you have is.. did you check off the checklist? They can't say they forgot if they have to check. It helps a lot.

The last few round of interviews I did was gruelling. The last round I did 12 interviews and only ONE of the applicants was under 250 pounds. It has been VERY hard to find a staff assistant that was even CLOSE to normal weight. Obesity is a huge epidemic for child care workers. My friend who owns two Centers and has about 60 employees told me that 9 out of 10 people coming to put applications in at her businesses are morbidly obese. Be prepared for that.

[mac60]

Why is that, that obesity is big for child care providers. I certainly don't sit on my butt. I found this getting interesting and would like to know. Do you think these kind of people are seeking daycare jobs because they think we sit on our butts all day, not qualified to do anything else, curious to hear the whys here.

[Greenshadow]

Originally Posted by QualiTcare

a contract would do absolutely nothing for you. anyone can quit a job at anytime for any reason and you can fire them at anytime for any reason AND don't even have to tell them WHY.

so, what would a contract do for you? what would you do if they quit without notice - sue them? that still doesn't fix your ratio problem.

i don't know if you could find anyone who would even sign a contract like that OR if it would be enforceable considering all the employment laws there are.

Ok. So I guess what I can do then is just hire her on her word and if it doesnt work out, I have my sister has a backup until I hire someone else.

I had never thought about the obesity issue. You are right though. I hope that the lady Im interviewing this Monday isnt. She seemed so nice and perfect for what Im looking for, however, she has a 2 year old. So I'd have another child to consider in my ratio that I wouldnt be getting paid for, that would probably be eating my food (or I can tell her to bring his or something I guess). Hmmmm...I do have another lady that wants to interview in after the 27th of June. She is away taking care of her mom as she had surgery. She has a child too but wouldnt bring him here. Hmmmm......

[professionalmom]

Originally Posted by Greenshadow

Ok. So I guess what I can do then is just hire her on her word and if it doesnt work out, I have my sister has a backup until I hire someone else.

I had never thought about the obesity issue. You are right though. I hope that the lady Im interviewing this Monday isnt. She seemed so nice and perfect for what Im looking for, however, she has a 2 year old. So I'd have another child to consider in my ratio that I wouldnt be getting paid for, that would probably be eating my food (or I can tell her to bring his or something I guess). Hmmmm...I do have another lady that wants to interview in after the 27th of June. She is away taking care of her mom as she had surgery. She has a child too but wouldnt bring him here. Hmmmm......

If the assistant is bringing in her own child(ren), it throws off your numbers and the child is taking up a spot that you could fill with a paying client. Therefore, I would try to make some agreement with her, like if you were planning on paying her $6 per hour, maybe you only pay her $4.50. Although she is there and would be "watching" her own child, she is taking up that spot AND you are saving her from paying for a full daycare spot IF she worked outside of childcare. Plus, there's the additional wear and tear on your home, toys, games, puzzles, etc. Plus, the additional craft supplies because you aren't going to have all the kids, except him, participate in arts and crafts. Basically, this kid would cost you money so her pay should reflect that.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by mac60

Why is that, that obesity is big for child care providers. I certainly don't sit on my butt. I found this getting interesting and would like to know. Do you think these kind of people are seeking daycare jobs because they think we sit on our butts all day, not qualified to do anything else, curious to hear the whys here.

I don't know for sure. I have spoken to another Center owner besides my friend who operates in a fairly affluent neighborhood and she is coming across the same issue.

I think our society is getting heavier. It's acceptable for our youth to be overweight. I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.

I did three rounds of interviewing over a period of maybe six months or so and the last one I put in my ads that we would not accept anyone who had the health issue of obesity because the job here is very physcially demanding etc. I tried to be as nice about it as I could. I know it's a slippery slope but I was really getting tired of interviewing girls that COULD NOT do this job. It was a huge waste of my time.

The ones who worked at Centers before my interview would bring their physical forms to me at the interview and I saw so many health issues like asthma, high blood pressure, and back problems. I don't know how they got the jobs in the Centers in the first place but if that's all that came thru the door when you needed staff.. what are you going to do?

I got to the point where I just asked height and weight. It was exhausting dealing with it. Still out of the twelve I did interview who told me their height and weight... I found that they markedly underestimated the truth. I was willing to consider girls 40-50 poiunds overweight but I could NOT have someone here that was 80-90-100 pounds overweight.

The person I hired was on the line of what I thought would work but after a year of working for me she lost about 25 pounds so she is doing really well. The job was EXTREMELY difficult for her in the begining. She was a perfect example of why I was certain that the weight would be an issue here. She had a really really hard time PHYSCIALLY doing the work and doing it in the time I needed it to be done.

I felt I didn't have the option to wait it out until I found someone who was physically fit enough for the job. I just wasn't getting a single response from someone who wasn't dealing with obesity.

I'm no slim jim myself. I have about 30 extra pounds on me. I know how physically taxing this is carrying around 30 extra pounds. It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80.

It's a hard subject to talk about because people get offended and there are anti discrimination laws. I didn't want to discriminate at all... I just really needed someone who could do this job. I can't afford to do the intensive costly training I do here and have someone quit because they can't keep up or have the health issues that come along with morbid obesity. When you have a small window of client base and funds for the position you have to have the RIGHT person. You can't have someone who has health complications and being 80 plus pounds overweight IS a health complication.

[professionalmom]

Originally Posted by nannyde

You can't have someone who has health complications and being 80 plus pounds overweight IS a health complication.

I think I can really shed a lot of light on this issue. First, I used to be morbidly obese. I had gastric bypass surgery in 2001 and lost over 1/2 my weight. I went from a size 24/26 to a 4/6 (depending on the designer). My energy went through the roof!! I was so thrilled to really feel like I could have children and know I would be able to chase after them.

Then I met my husband when I was 31 and I tried Depro-Provera. I had maintain my size 4/6 figure for over 5 years, but within 6 months I gained 30 pounds! I later learned that was one of the side effects. However, due to other medical complications from the Depo, I never took it again. Later, we got pregnant with DD. Once she turned 18 months, I finally started losing the baby weight only to find out we're pregnant with TWINS!!

I had difficulty losing the baby weight with DD because I got so busy with the kids that I was forgetting to eat, so my metabolism (which has always sucked!) went in to h***. Once I realized that the kids NEEDED me to TAKE CARE OF MYSELF, I started eating more often and I lost 8 pounds in less than 2 weeks! Then ... the twins.

Here's the really strange thing: I am dead tired and exhausted like you would NOT believe. However, due to 1st tri morning sickness, I lost 10 pounds and have not gained an ounce back. Yet, my belly is growing so fast, it actually hurts from the stretching. I'm only 15 weeks and need to get new underwear because nothing fits anymore!

So, at the moment I am approximately 30-40 lbs overweight, which did not bother me much, as for running the daycare. But the pregnancy is killing me, even without the weight gain.

As for being morbidly obese, it DOES affect your ability to do things physically. I know some people may get offended, but take it from someone who has been a size 26 and a size 6 - I have been there and done that, I DO KNOW! And I would NOT hire anyone who was more than 50 pounds overweight. You have to be able to perform the functions of your job. This job requires physical stamina. And people more than 50 lbs overweight just do not have the stamina of a person of healthy weight. Plus, if they try, they could collapse with a stroke or heart attack. I would NEVER want that to happen in front of my kids (my own or my daycare kids)! Talk about trauma!

Since I have not gained an ounce with this pregnancy but my belly is protruding like I'm 20-22 weeks, I am hoping that I am losing excess weight in direct relation to the amount the babies are adding to my body. If that's correct, I might walk out of this pregnancy healthier than I started!! WooHoo!!

Just a few thoughts though - 1) morbid obesity is NOT ALWAYS because of unhealthy behavior or laziness. Some are more predisposed for it. 2) Also, I am an avid supporter of gastric bypass and gastric banding, BUT ONLY if the person meets the criteria of the National Institutes of Health AND proper counseling / retraining is completed. Pushing the limits could be deadly. 3) If anyone wants info about weight loss surgery for themselves or someone they know, just let me know.

[Greenshadow]

Originally Posted by professionalmom

If the assistant is bringing in her own child(ren), it throws off your numbers and the child is taking up a spot that you could fill with a paying client. Therefore, I would try to make some agreement with her, like if you were planning on paying her $6 per hour, maybe you only pay her $4.50. Although she is there and would be "watching" her own child, she is taking up that spot AND you are saving her from paying for a full daycare spot IF she worked outside of childcare. Plus, there's the additional wear and tear on your home, toys, games, puzzles, etc. Plus, the additional craft supplies because you aren't going to have all the kids, except him, participate in arts and crafts. Basically, this kid would cost you money so her pay should reflect that.

I spoke with her on the phone today. I guess I wasnt thinking clearly about her child being so costly. I told her $8.25/hr. Thats $1 more than minimum wage here. Maybe when I meet with her on Monday, I can revise it to take into consideration the costs of her child and the fact that this child takes up a paying spot....

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by professionalmom

If the assistant is bringing in her own child(ren), it throws off your numbers and the child is taking up a spot that you could fill with a paying client. Therefore, I would try to make some agreement with her, like if you were planning on paying her $6 per hour, maybe you only pay her $4.50. Although she is there and would be "watching" her own child, she is taking up that spot AND you are saving her from paying for a full daycare spot IF she worked outside of childcare. Plus, there's the additional wear and tear on your home, toys, games, puzzles, etc. Plus, the additional craft supplies because you aren't going to have all the kids, except him, participate in arts and crafts. Basically, this kid would cost you money so her pay should reflect that.

I did the staff assistant with kid thing with two employees and won't go there again. The SA's kids can make your life a living hell. For me, it worked okay when they were babies but once they got into the two year old range it got a lot more complicated. It's very hard for the sa to not choose their kids happiness over the happiness and fairness of the group. Paying an adult to keep one kid happy gets really expensive really fast. If the kid takes a slot in your day care you have to make sure it's being paid for and that the child isn't comsuming more of the resources than their portion of the care. That gets dicey when it's their Mama doing the care.

I required my sa's to pay for a full slot for the hours they used care with the same policies as my other clients. It's the only way to make it work. If their kid was out sick they still paid for the slot. If they went on vacation they still paid for the slot. When I went on vacation they paid.

If you allow a sa kid for free then add about four dollars an hour to her pay. You will see it that way but she won't. If you pay eight dollars an hour and she gets free day care.. that's equivallent to twelve dollars an hour. Do day care workers in your area make twelve dollars an hour? Is her presence allowing YOU to bring home more money? If you end up with extra kids. .. her kid and the day care kids that pay her eight dollars an hour.. then how much are YOU getting after expenses?

My State only allows 12 kids plus two part timers for the highest catagory for home day care. Of those twelve plus two kids you can only have four under the age of two even if BOTH the provider and the "co provider / staff assistant" are present. That means we have to fill the slots with older kids. Babies are way easier to get.

By myself I can have eight with four under the age of two. It doesn't pay me to have a staff assistant at eight dollars an hour plus her kid because the extra kids I can take basically go to her salary. If you have that many kids the staff assistant has to really know what they are doing and you gotta PAY for that level of experience. That kind of staff assistant needs more money than a newbie.

I decided to just have an inexperienced cheaper staff assistant with no kid and just have my eight kids. At the end of the year.. I make just as much money with that combination than I did with the expensive sa with more kids.

So be careful not to rob peter to pay paul. If you are going to have a helper that will allow you more kids then make sure you aren't giving all that money and the money for their kids slot to them.

[Former Teacher]

Originally Posted by nannyde

I don't know for sure. I have spoken to another Center owner besides my friend who operates in a fairly affluent neighborhood and she is coming across the same issue.

I think our society is getting heavier. It's acceptable for our youth to be overweight. I think child care draws lower skilled lower paid workers who have a higher chance of obesity because they don't have the education and money to eat healthier.

I did three rounds of interviewing over a period of maybe six months or so and the last one I put in my ads that we would not accept anyone who had the health issue of obesity because the job here is very physcially demanding etc. I tried to be as nice about it as I could. I know it's a slippery slope but I was really getting tired of interviewing girls that COULD NOT do this job. It was a huge waste of my time.

The ones who worked at Centers before my interview would bring their physical forms to me at the interview and I saw so many health issues like asthma, high blood pressure, and back problems. I don't know how they got the jobs in the Centers in the first place but if that's all that came thru the door when you needed staff.. what are you going to do?

I got to the point where I just asked height and weight. It was exhausting dealing with it. Still out of the twelve I did interview who told me their height and weight... I found that they markedly underestimated the truth. I was willing to consider girls 40-50 poiunds overweight but I could NOT have someone here that was 80-90-100 pounds overweight.

The person I hired was on the line of what I thought would work but after a year of working for me she lost about 25 pounds so she is doing really well. The job was EXTREMELY difficult for her in the begining. She was a perfect example of why I was certain that the weight would be an issue here. She had a really really hard time PHYSCIALLY doing the work and doing it in the time I needed it to be done.

I felt I didn't have the option to wait it out until I found someone who was physically fit enough for the job. I just wasn't getting a single response from someone who wasn't dealing with obesity.

I'm no slim jim myself. I have about 30 extra pounds on me. I know how physically taxing this is carrying around 30 extra pounds. It would be impossible to do this with an extra 80.

It's a hard subject to talk about because people get offended and there are anti discrimination laws. I didn't want to discriminate at all... I just really needed someone who could do this job. I can't afford to do the intensive costly training I do here and have someone quit because they can't keep up or have the health issues that come along with morbid obesity. When you have a small window of client base and funds for the position you have to have the RIGHT person. You can't have someone who has health complications and being 80 plus pounds overweight IS a health complication.

nannyde-I agree with MOST of your posts however this one takes the cake. To come out and literally say you wouldn't hire an overweight person is indeed discrimination no matter how you look at it. Are you saying this because you are hiding behind a screen name?

You go on to say that you yourself is about 30 pounds overweight. That comment to me is like a dr telling his patient to quit smoking as he (the doctor) lights up a cigarette.

Yes daycare is a demanding job. EVERYONE on this forum knows that. However there are millions of people who are heavyset that are extremely active. Just because they aren't skinny doesn't mean they can't do their job.

You are correct when you say that people would get offended. I am one of them. Just because of weight you will not take in consideration all my education, trainings, credentials etc.

You shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by Former Teacher

nannyde-I agree with MOST of your posts however this one takes the cake. To come out and literally say you wouldn't hire an overweight person is indeed discrimination no matter how you look at it. Are you saying this because you are hiding behind a screen name?

You go on to say that you yourself is about 30 pounds overweight. That comment to me is like a dr telling his patient to quit smoking as he (the doctor) lights up a cigarette.

Yes daycare is a demanding job. EVERYONE on this forum knows that. However there are millions of people who are heavyset that are extremely active. Just because they aren't skinny doesn't mean they can't do their job.

You are correct when you say that people would get offended. I am one of them. Just because of weight you will not take in consideration all my education, trainings, credentials etc.

You shouldn't judge a book by its cover.

See I"m talking about an ASSISTANT job. I'm not talking about hiring someone with education, training, credentials, experience etc. I don't care about ANY of that. My State requires the staff assistant have only a physical, child abuse registry check, and within a few months of working the two hour child abuse training class. That's IT. The requirements are low for a reason. That's ALL it takes to be a staff assistant. You don't have to even have first aid and CPR to be a staff assistant. NO experience or education necessary. I don't look for that because I don't want to pay for it.

I want someone who can WORK. The job is PHYSICAL work. I don't need someone who knows what they are doing with kids. I need someone who can dress eight kids in full winter gear and HAUL them from the furthest point of the basement, up a flight of stairs, to the furthest part of the first floor and clip them into a stroller.. THEN.... get back downstairs and haul another one... one right after another. I want them to be able to push a triple stroller with three kids in it and five on the perimeter of it. I want them to be able to walk 1.2 miles per day pushing that stroller. Then I want them to come back into the house and UNLOAD those eight kids one by one.... one after another... back down to the playroom. Then I want them to undo their winter clothing.. up and down off of the floor to work with each kid. remove the clothing... return it to it's place and then get started on the next PHYSICAL task I need them to do. I want them to do it safely and quickly. That's WORK. It's HARD physically.

That's ONE of the physical jobs. Another one is getting up and down off of the floor hundreds of times a day. Hauling laundry downstairs, fold, then haul back upstairs and put away. Clean a 2500 square foot home. Be able to go to the WalMart and buy 500 bucks worth of supplies.. haul them into the car.. then unload them one after another... bag by bag into the house.. down the stairs to the pantry. I want them to be able to bring them in QUICKLY and get them put away QUICKLY without a break. One after another.

Someone that is eighty pounds overweight can't do this kind of job. It's just too hard. It's not personal... it's physics. This isnt' a DAY CARE PROVIDER job. I'm the day care provider.. it's a STAFF ASSISTANT job. I need someone who is physically fit and fast.

I just went thru this with my current SA. She had a VERY VERY VERY hard time with this job in the begining. She KNOWS the reason for this is because she is way too heavy. I struggled a lot with paying her for this job and having it take so long to get things done because she PHYSICALLY couldn't keep up with it.

We talk about how obesity causes so many health issues. We know that it is affecting our youth and their prognosis for longevity in life and a healthy life. We know it leads to diabetes, skeletal issues, asthma, high blood pressure, heart problems etc. We all know this BUT when you take it to the next level and say that the person who is morbidly obese may not be able to do a PHYSICAL job because of it then everybody gets in a tizzy. They ARE one and the same.

When I was interviewing these young girls with morbid obesity I had them take a walk with me. I walked with them around my block which is six tenths of a mile. We do this twice a day with the kids pushing a stroller and the kids alongside of it. Not one of them made it around the block without getting REALLY winded. This was just WALKING not pushing a stroller. It took me twice as long to get around the block as it does with kids in tow That simple "fitness" test told me EVERYTHING I needed to know. Despite their conviction that yes they were overweight but they can MOVE and they are healthy I saw the opposite. A twenty year old should be able to walk. not fast.. just walk .. six blocks without getting winded. None of them could.

Nan

[nannyde]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010...ity_and_n.html


"Overall only 1 in 4 of our young adults between the ages of 17 and 24 is eligible for military service," says Rear Adm. Jamie Barnett (ret.). Obesity is one of the main reasons, he says.

Originally Posted by nannyde

I've had a SA for 16 years. I've never had a contract. I have done checklists. Then the only question you have is.. did you check off the checklist? They can't say they forgot if they have to check. It helps a lot.

The last few round of interviews I did was gruelling. The last round I did 12 interviews and only ONE of the applicants was under 250 pounds. It has been VERY hard to find a staff assistant that was even CLOSE to normal weight. Obesity is a huge epidemic for child care workers. My friend who owns two Centers and has about 60 employees told me that 9 out of 10 people coming to put applications in at her businesses are morbidly obese. Be prepared for that.

SO TRUE! At the center I work at the lady who was hired to assist me is very over weight. She seems to sit around most of the time (unless the director comes around and all of a sudden she's up and moving a lot). But she gets all sweaty, and red-faced, etc at the least amount of movement. The director doesn't seem to notice that the lady can hardly do her job properly because of her weight. You have to be very selective in this job field. An overweight employee is just a hinderance and a liability, if you ask me. Think of all the health problems they would probably have. That means more time off for doctor appointments, etc, more sick time probably, and decreased energy needed for this job field. Plus, how are they going to sit on the floor or at little child-sized furniture and interract at the child's level? Have you ever seen a heavy-set person try to sit down on the floor, or get up after sitting on the floor?

omg! These comments about the obese disgust me.

Discrimination!!! That's all I can say. So sad. :-(

[jen]

I have had an assistant in the past and I will tell you that it can be VERY difficult when they bring their own child. When their child breaks a toy or hits another child, it will never be as big a deal as when someone hits their kid or takes/breaks their toy. It's their kid, and when they are being ugly it isn't as ugly... and when they are being adorable, then they are all about that...

If I had to do it again, I think I would divide the group and put the assistant's child with me.

I had room and didn't intend on filling the spot so I let my assistant bring her child without cost or pay decrease. However, I do know other providers who paid minimum wage and then gave the assistant a discout on care...but they did PAY (through payroll deduction) for their child to be enrolled.

[originalkat]

Originally Posted by nannyde

See I"m talking about an ASSISTANT job. I'm not talking about hiring someone with education, training, credentials, experience etc. I don't care about ANY of that. My State requires the staff assistant have only a physical, child abuse registry check, and within a few months of working the two hour child abuse training class. That's IT. The requirements are low for a reason. That's ALL it takes to be a staff assistant. You don't have to even have first aid and CPR to be a staff assistant. NO experience or education necessary. I don't look for that because I don't want to pay for it.

I want someone who can WORK. The job is PHYSICAL work. I don't need someone who knows what they are doing with kids. I need someone who can dress eight kids in full winter gear and HAUL them from the furthest point of the basement, up a flight of stairs, to the furthest part of the first floor and clip them into a stroller.. THEN.... get back downstairs and haul another one... one right after another. I want them to be able to push a triple stroller with three kids in it and five on the perimeter of it. I want them to be able to walk 1.2 miles per day pushing that stroller. Then I want them to come back into the house and UNLOAD those eight kids one by one.... one after another... back down to the playroom. Then I want them to undo their winter clothing.. up and down off of the floor to work with each kid. remove the clothing... return it to it's place and then get started on the next PHYSICAL task I need them to do. I want them to do it safely and quickly. That's WORK. It's HARD physically.

That's ONE of the physical jobs. Another one is getting up and down off of the floor hundreds of times a day. Hauling laundry downstairs, fold, then haul back upstairs and put away. Clean a 2500 square foot home. Be able to go to the WalMart and buy 500 bucks worth of supplies.. haul them into the car.. then unload them one after another... bag by bag into the house.. down the stairs to the pantry. I want them to be able to bring them in QUICKLY and get them put away QUICKLY without a break. One after another.

Someone that is eighty pounds overweight can't do this kind of job. It's just too hard. It's not personal... it's physics. This isnt' a DAY CARE PROVIDER job. I'm the day care provider.. it's a STAFF ASSISTANT job. I need someone who is physically fit and fast.

I just went thru this with my current SA. She had a VERY VERY VERY hard time with this job in the begining. She KNOWS the reason for this is because she is way too heavy. I struggled a lot with paying her for this job and having it take so long to get things done because she PHYSICALLY couldn't keep up with it.

We talk about how obesity causes so many health issues. We know that it is affecting our youth and their prognosis for longevity in life and a healthy life. We know it leads to diabetes, skeletal issues, asthma, high blood pressure, heart problems etc. We all know this BUT when you take it to the next level and say that the person who is morbidly obese may not be able to do a PHYSICAL job because of it then everybody gets in a tizzy. They ARE one and the same.

When I was interviewing these young girls with morbid obesity I had them take a walk with me. I walked with them around my block which is six tenths of a mile. We do this twice a day with the kids pushing a stroller and the kids alongside of it. Not one of them made it around the block without getting REALLY winded. This was just WALKING not pushing a stroller. It took me twice as long to get around the block as it does with kids in tow That simple "fitness" test told me EVERYTHING I needed to know. Despite their conviction that yes they were overweight but they can MOVE and they are healthy I saw the opposite. A twenty year old should be able to walk. not fast.. just walk .. six blocks without getting winded. None of them could.

Nan

I have never heard of a "Staff Assistant" job in this career field. I have worked in California, Kansas, and Missouri and NONE of them have EVER hired a physical laborer as you have described here. You are saying that you hire a body. You dont care if they have experience, knowledge, classes...you just want a grunt. I think that is just sad. They still interact with the kids on those mile long stroller walks. Hopefully they are discussing the weather, the color and feel of the snow when they bundle those 8 kids up and "haul" them to your intended destination. Weight should not be the main factor you are looking at. You should be looking for quality of care. You can still pay an assistant wages that reflect that position. However, we are not construction workers or day laborers working with cement and heavy equipment. We are molding and shaping the hearts and minds of these little ones. I want someone with heart, not just someone who knows how to MOVE MOVE MOVE!

How can you hire someone who will be interacting with the children and say, "I don't need someone who knows what they are doing with kids." Are you KIDDING me?!?! They are fit as a bean pole, but they know nothing about kids.Hmmmm. I think I will hire them. That is just rediculous IMO.

[Greenshadow]

I understand what NannyDe is saying. Obviously she wants them to have an understanding of children BUT she also wants someone who can move and get their job done. I had a similar issue recently. I hired my sister to help me here. I paid her VERY WELL. We were in the dining room getting ready for lunch and I asked her to get something out of the pantry, open it and distribute it to the kids. She got it out and set it on the counter. I was done making sandwiches and saw it setting there. I grabbed it, opened it and started distributing it in the time it took her to figure out where the needed items were that she needed, I was already done. She has been in my house a million times so she knows. She isnt obese but she is heavy. She is slow. She breathes heavy when she gets up and down from the floor and the bottom line is, she is too slow. Im quick. She spun around when I grabbed the container and opened it and even mentioned how I moved so fast she didnt even see me take it! Thats what I want. Someone who can move their arse. I dont have time to wait for someone to work with me. The kids wont wait. They want it now and I am an active person who gets the job done. I need someone with that activity level too. Most obese people just cant keep up. Thats a fact, unfortunately. My sister isnt a whole lot overweight, but she's probably 50 lbs overweight. Obviously it affects her movement and speed. She doesnt work with me anymore. I wasnt rude about it. She's my sister. I love her and appreciate that she helped.

[Former Teacher]

Originally Posted by originalkat

I have never heard of a "Staff Assistant" job in this career field. I have worked in California, Kansas, and Missouri and NONE of them have EVER hired a physical laborer as you have described here. You are saying that you hire a body. You dont care if they have experience, knowledge, classes...you just want a grunt. I think that is just sad. They still interact with the kids on those mile long stroller walks. Hopefully they are discussing the weather, the color and feel of the snow when they bundle those 8 kids up and "haul" them to your intended destination. Weight should not be the main factor you are looking at. You should be looking for quality of care. You can still pay an assistant wages that reflect that position. However, we are not construction workers or day laborers working with cement and heavy equipment. We are molding and shaping the hearts and minds of these little ones. I want someone with heart, not just someone who knows how to MOVE MOVE MOVE!

How can you hire someone who will be interacting with the children and say, "I don't need someone who knows what they are doing with kids." Are you KIDDING me?!?! They are fit as a bean pole, but they know nothing about kids.Hmmmm. I think I will hire them. That is just rediculous IMO.

Well said originalkat! Thank you. I will not respond to nannyde and her insensitive comments about this issue. Like Thumper in Bambi said: if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all

Anyway thanks xoxo

[nannyde]

Originally Posted by originalkat

I have never heard of a "Staff Assistant" job in this career field. I have worked in California, Kansas, and Missouri and NONE of them have EVER hired a physical laborer as you have described here. You are saying that you hire a body. You dont care if they have experience, knowledge, classes...you just want a grunt. I think that is just sad. They still interact with the kids on those mile long stroller walks. Hopefully they are discussing the weather, the color and feel of the snow when they bundle those 8 kids up and "haul" them to your intended destination. Weight should not be the main factor you are looking at. You should be looking for quality of care. You can still pay an assistant wages that reflect that position. However, we are not construction workers or day laborers working with cement and heavy equipment. We are molding and shaping the hearts and minds of these little ones. I want someone with heart, not just someone who knows how to MOVE MOVE MOVE!

How can you hire someone who will be interacting with the children and say, "I don't need someone who knows what they are doing with kids." Are you KIDDING me?!?! They are fit as a bean pole, but they know nothing about kids.Hmmmm. I think I will hire them. That is just rediculous IMO.

YES I would rather have someone fit as a bean pole and know NOTHING about kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes yes yes yes

I have trained many staff assistants over the years from age 14-25. The less they know when they come here the BETTER. Come to me with no preconceived notions. Come to me with NO bad habits. Come to me with NO "philosophy". Come to me with NO "child care training" classes done for the masses.

Come to me HEALTHY, fit, strong, with a strong work ethic and you wil learn MY ways.

I don't care if they haven't ever held a bottle. I don't care if they don't know how to change a diaper or burp a bay. I don't care if they have never had a single kid in their care in their life. I DO care if they are the oldest born child in their family. I DO care if they have CHORES in their family. I do care if they have worked and NEEDED to work from the time they are 14. I do care that they have had a strict upbringing of working class parents. THESE plus a healthy body is what makes for a great staff assistant in my job.

My State has the term "staff assistant" in the Code. It's not a word I made up. There job is to ASSIST. In my job their primary responsibilities are the PHYSICAL work of the business of child care. I manage the rest.

I could care less if they know zip aout kids because the truth is that's the easiest thing for me to train. I can't magically get someone to be physically fit and have a strong work ethic. I can get someone SAFELY watching the kids within a month of the Nan Plan.

Yes you are right also about the "grunt" part of the job. And no, I don't have my staff assistant talking to the kids on the walk about the weather. The kids talk to EACH OTHER on the walks. My staff assistant pushes the stroller and supervises how the children are safely walking and assessing the external environment for possible safety risks such as loose dogs, erratic drivers, or impediments on the sidewalk which could trip the children or harm them in some way. NO talking about the weather. NO talking to the kids other than directing their safe walking.

And one more thing. You keep talking aout skinny. If you read my post on this you will see that I said that I didn't interview anyone UNDER 250 pounds. I wasn't looking for skinny. I didn't even hope for normal. I was wanting someone who was NOT morbidly obese.

We need to stop pretending that obesity in this country has NO affect on job performance and employer costs. It does.

I have to say that as much as I would like to say that weight is a non-issue in the hiring process, I can't. Believe me, I feel bad about that, but it is what it is. If I were to hire an assistant for my daycare, the person I hire would have to be physically fit enough to do all of the things that would be required. I used to weight about 100 pounds more than I do right now so I speak from experience when I say that I couldn't even do a fraction of what I can do now without the extra 100 pounds on my frame. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have a problem hiring a person who was overweight just as long as it doesn't get in the way of performing their job duties. It may sound insensitive, but at the end of the day, I have a business to run and if I were to hire an assistant, I would hire the person who can do the job to my standards. Physical activity is a HUGE part of what I do here, so I would want to hire someone who can keep up.

Originally Posted by Janet

I have to say that as much as I would like to say that weight is a non-issue in the hiring process, I can't. Believe me, I feel bad about that, but it is what it is. If I were to hire an assistant for my daycare, the person I hire would have to be physically fit enough to do all of the things that would be required. I used to weight about 100 pounds more than I do right now so I speak from experience when I say that I couldn't even do a fraction of what I can do now without the extra 100 pounds on my frame. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't have a problem hiring a person who was overweight just as long as it doesn't get in the way of performing their job duties. It may sound insensitive, but at the end of the day, I have a business to run and if I were to hire an assistant, I would hire the person who can do the job to my standards. Physical activity is a HUGE part of what I do here, so I would want to hire someone who can keep up.

That's what the whole point was of the poster who first mentioned hiring overweight people. Well said, Janet. It's not that we don't want to hire an obese person, we just want to hire people who can DO THEIR JOB. Imagine if an obese police officer were hired in a city where there are a lot of on-foot chases. If the police officer is so obese that he can't run as fast as someone more average sized, why hire them? The criminal would out run him before he could get out of the car! It has just been my experience that over weight people tend to not be physically able to do their job in caring for several children. Yeah if you have like 5 kids to take care of, no biggie probably. But say you have 10 or 12 children all going in different directions. You'd need someone able to keep up with them, unless the children are like little soldiers (mine most certainly are not), and sit when told, stand when told, stop when told, stay together all in one spot for the entire time, etc. I have seen from experience that obese people just physically cannot do as much as a fit person (or just overweight by 30-50 pounds) could. I have worked with too many obese people who avoid doing something as simple as taking the children to the playground, or even outside for a few minutes. They disguise it as being "too hot for the children", and yet myself or the kids either one hardly break a sweat. And I'm not saying all overweight people are like this, but most of the ones I have worked with tend to sit around most of the time. Yeah, they may be great with the kids, and have them sitting on their laps and talking to them and all that, but when you have 12 other kids running around, it's just not practical to sit most of the time. What child care provider has time to sit down while they're watching children, if they are really doing their best job? I don't get to sit from the time the day starts til nap time. And yet, obese workers seem to find lots of time for sitting while the other providers are running around doing all the work. I'm not saying obese means lazy either! Most (not all) just can't physically handle as much.

[QualiTcare]

Originally Posted by Greenshadow

I understand what NannyDe is saying. Obviously she wants them to have an understanding of children BUT she also wants someone who can move and get their job done. I had a similar issue recently. I hired my sister to help me here. I paid her VERY WELL. We were in the dining room getting ready for lunch and I asked her to get something out of the pantry, open it and distribute it to the kids. She got it out and set it on the counter. I was done making sandwiches and saw it setting there. I grabbed it, opened it and started distributing it in the time it took her to figure out where the needed items were that she needed, I was already done. She has been in my house a million times so she knows. She isnt obese but she is heavy. She is slow. She breathes heavy when she gets up and down from the floor and the bottom line is, she is too slow. Im quick. She spun around when I grabbed the container and opened it and even mentioned how I moved so fast she didnt even see me take it! Thats what I want. Someone who can move their arse. I dont have time to wait for someone to work with me. The kids wont wait. They want it now and I am an active person who gets the job done. I need someone with that activity level too. Most obese people just cant keep up. Thats a fact, unfortunately. My sister isnt a whole lot overweight, but she's probably 50 lbs overweight. Obviously it affects her movement and speed. She doesnt work with me anymore. I wasnt rude about it. She's my sister. I love her and appreciate that she helped.

for the record - i've worked with many, many beanpoles that were just as lazy as they were stupid. i worked with this one lady who must've been 110 soaking wet and she was tall - and over the course of THREE months (yes, i counted) she didn't do ONE thing on our closing list. i did it ALL, every day - and complained to management. no, i'm not obese - but she would def. win if we were being judged on who was more ACTIVE based on appearance! how about checking references? assuming an overweight person won't do their job is as stupid as assuming that a thin person WILL.

[Greenshadow]

Originally Posted by QualiTcare

for the record - i've worked with many, many beanpoles that were just as lazy as they were stupid. i worked with this one lady who must've been 110 soaking wet and she was tall - and over the course of THREE months (yes, i counted) she didn't do ONE thing on our closing list. i did it ALL, every day - and complained to management. no, i'm not obese - but she would def. win if we were being judged on who was more ACTIVE based on appearance! how about checking references? assuming an overweight person won't do their job is as stupid as assuming that a thin person WILL.

For the record, Im not the one that started saying that I checked someone's weight before hiring them. This was something brought to my attention after I started this post about hiring an asst.