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  #1  
Old 07-13-2017, 10:36 AM
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Default To Term or Not to Term, That Is the Question…

Yes, this age-old question has been discussed on previous threads but I did not want to steal focus from the person who posted it. Besides, each circumstance is unique.

I have almost done it, I even have the letter ready to go from a few months ago.

How many of you have termed for just plain not liking a child? (Keep in mind, not all adult personalities are compatible either, it’s really the same thing) While I realize this can be a touchy subject, I am seeking tried and true advice, please refrain from negativity, it makes me sad. I am never interested in partaking in catty banter. We are all on the same team here!

I could mention all the annoying qualities the DCK (age 2 ¼) possesses but that would take forever. OK ok If you insist, I will name just a few…
• Rips every toy off the shelf and onto the floor in a matter of 5 minutes
• Cannot play nicely with other children, constantly takes toys, hits, pushes, cries when corrected and yells. Thinks all toys are “mine”. Hoards toys.
• Needless to say, unstructured or “free play” is out of the question for this one. Oh, but structured activities are out too, as DCK will not sit with the group for 5 seconds without disrupting the entire activity… forget circle time.
• Cannot use paint, markers or anything really that doesn’t go in the mouth, because it will.
• Constantly making NOISE... literally nonstop. Humming, repeating, yelling, laughing
• Always having to take a sit and play separate from other children due to behavior issues
• Riles up other children
• Wakes up the other children during nap

The list goes on forever it seems and it is such a pleasant environment when this child is not here for the day. The odd thing is, the DCK is actually a really good listener and can be very sweet. None of the obnoxious behavior is done aggressively, however, I am CONSTANTLY redirecting and I am exhausted mentally.

I am highly inclined to believe it is not just age, nor do I believe it is a case of ADHD. I think this may be an instance of Nature AND Nurture as DKP and I have very different parenting styles. DCP is permissive so that does not help one bit. I have done my best to address this to no avail.

Despite all, I feel bad for this kiddo. (Alright, I guess I have a soft spot for DCK after all…still drives me nuts though) I literally cannot stand this child but I feel like I would miss the little stinker if I terminated. I need my sanity and I find myself being grumpy. Is the grass really greener on the other side? What would you do? Even an “I am in the same boat” would help!

P.S Not concerned about the money aspect one bit. Just what is best for the little one and my brain!
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:56 AM
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I had a soft spot for a child of a permissive parent. Loved the child but trying to balance that child in a group was a nightmare. Parents weren't going to change and I felt like I was in a constant uphill battle. Most kids learn there's a different set of expectations here and ( even if it takes time ) meet them and I only have to deal with drop off and pick up time since they know they have control at home. This child seemed to struggle every single day. I did eventually terminate care and it was definitely the right decision. I shouldn't have tried to stick it out. Looking back, I feel like I did a disservice to the child since this was obviously not the right setting to have them in.
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:20 AM
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I had this exact child recently. They were with me for about a year and I finally gave up as the behaviors got worse and worse and, to be honest, I was never able to form a connection with the child which makes it a bit more difficult to deal with. I always feel bad letting a child go, but the days go by so so sooo much smoother now...I don't regret it for a second!
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:28 AM
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He sounds exhausting. I never feel guilty for terming. When I feel it coming and start questioning myself then it's usually time and once I actually term it's always a huge weight lifted off of me and my days are so much more pleasant. I imagine you will be much happier and engaged with the other kids in your care once he's gone
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:30 AM
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Any time you are dreading a child's attendance repeatedly, you should term. It's not fair to you and not fair to the kiddo. The nice thing about this being your business is that you can term for whatever reason you want!
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:51 AM
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Thank you all, it is nice to just hear that some of you have been through it also! I somehow knew terming is the right direction, yet it is is hard not to second guess myself, especially on the "good" days.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:50 AM
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regardless of age we are not going to connect with every child in care. Like you said no different that connecting with adults. I have a very best friend who is 72, she is who I inspire to be.

I honestly fell every child deserves a child that can connect with them. I am lucky that I have staff and I don't connect too well with the child, there is a chance they will, if not, we have to let the child go.

It's also taking a look at your environment, it may not be with the child needs.

Don't feel bad, you are only human and you can only do so much. Honestly, i would let this child go, sounds like he needs a difference environment and an adult that can give more one on one attention.
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:14 AM
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I'm refraining from replying as I wouldn't want to make anyone sad.
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by daycare View Post
It's also taking a look at your environment, it may not be with the child needs.

Don't feel bad, you are only human and you can only do so much. Honestly, i would let this child go, sounds like he needs a difference environment and an adult that can give more one on one attention.
I echo Daycare!

My contracts are only one year long so I would likely stick out the contract and not renew stating the dcb needs a different sort of setting and then provide some insight to what I think that setting may be.

Best of luck.
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Old 07-14-2017, 12:17 PM
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I feel like this post would be about my son if I had to put him in someone else's program. I've said multiple times that if he was not my child I would have termed months ago. On the crazy days he tests every limit, literally bounces of the walls, and is generally exhausting. (To clarify, the behaviors are never malicious or violent in any form... just... wild.) Redirections, consequences, behavior management of any sort be damned; when he's having an "energy burst" you just hang on and do your best. On the good days/hours he's a model citizen. At this point I can anticipate some episodes coming, like if a new child starts the program or one leaves. We are going on vacation soon to visit family we rarely see, so I'm sure saying good bye to them will stir up a few days or of crazy. If he were not my own child I would not have been able to manage his care. He will turn 3 in October and whether it's age or other factors he is finally mellowing out a bit. Were he in daycare, I would hold no ill feelings to a provider that needed to be done.
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Old 07-14-2017, 01:28 PM
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I'm refraining from replying as I wouldn't want to make anyone sad.
You can't post that and then not tell us. Lol. I'm dying to know what you think BC.
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Old 07-14-2017, 06:13 PM
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I have done this for almost 5 years. I've had 1 like that. I think her parents' style just made things worse as well. She had no fear! She would go barreling down the hill in my backyard and just - plop- land facedown in the grass. (The positive was that it didn't faze her, so no dramatic fits afterward.) I can't explain it all, but I just didn't connect with her. Her parents not paying me made it very easy to finally just term. I held on longer than I should have.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:05 AM
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I'm refraining from replying as I wouldn't want to make anyone sad.
Now you HAVE to make us sad!! Tell us!!! Pleeeaaaaasseee.....
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2017, 09:17 AM
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I'm refraining from replying as I wouldn't want to make anyone sad.
BlackCat you are always helpful. There is a big difference between witty and catty. I was referring to "OMG all children a treasures, you monster!" type comments lol
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:18 AM
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There is a big difference between witty and catty.
...and I was being neither.

If you want my honest opinion I think you need to refresh your idea of what appropriate behavior for a 2 year is and isn't.

Many of your comments in regards to his "annoying" behavior demonstrate your lack of knowledge in regards to developmentally appropriate practices. The expectations need to be realigned.

To teach means finding the KEY (adapting, altering or arranging) to meet the needs for all learning styles.


....and that was not said with any negativity or intent to cause you sadness.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:39 AM
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...and I was being neither.

If you want my honest opinion I think you need to refresh your idea of what appropriate behavior for a 2 year is and isn't.

Many of your comments in regards to his "annoying" behavior demonstrate your lack of knowledge in regards to developmentally appropriate practices. The expectations need to be realigned.

To teach means finding the KEY (adapting, altering or arranging) to meet the needs for all learning styles.


....and that was not said with any negativity or intent to cause you sadness.
I guess I didn't realize how young the child is. that was a very good point BC

I mostly 3 and 4.5 year olds. I have new guy that just turned two and he does very well in my program, but I also don't expose him to the same things I do the other kids nor do I expect him to do what they can.

are you able to manage something where the other kids can do painting and playdough, while the 2 year old rug plays with toys within his developmental expectations??
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
...and I was being neither.

If you want my honest opinion I think you need to refresh your idea of what appropriate behavior for a 2 year is and isn't.

Many of your comments in regards to his "annoying" behavior demonstrate your lack of knowledge in regards to developmentally appropriate practices. The expectations need to be realigned.

To teach means finding the KEY (adapting, altering or arranging) to meet the needs for all learning styles.


....and that was not said with any negativity or intent to cause you sadness.
Dude, I was giving you a compliment. (Witty- showing or characterized by quick and inventive verbal humor.) It is so hard to ascertain intention and tone via text conversation. My intended tone is playful neutrality.

Thank you and while I appreciate your input, I have already made clear, this is not an issue of age. I am sorry if that type of behavior is a usual occurrence with your little ones, that must be exhausting!

I have never encountered this level of behavior issues from other kiddos and have much for comparison. None of the other children, same age, act this way. It is a matter of compatibility for the group and I wondered if “sticking it out” was appropriate.

How would you feel if this DCK was repeatedly bullying your child and showed no sign of improvement? How would you feel if you were the DCK in questions parent and was repeatedly told DCK had to play separately again today because of the behavior? It is not fair to DCK or the group.
Not all of us are willing to work with this behavior and yay, we don’t have to!!!
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:25 AM
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Maybe a change in direction. How about parenting styles... How does everyone handle permissive parents. Do you allow this behavior to overlap, or nip it in the bud?

My real life example is. "If you stop yelling, I will give you and Oreo." BC, you must see relation to the behavior in this at least?
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:38 AM
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Maybe a change in direction. How about parenting styles... How does everyone handle permissive parents. Do you allow this behavior to overlap, or nip it in the bud?

My real life example is. "If you stop yelling, I will give you and Oreo." BC, you must see relation to the behavior in this at least?
I bite my tongue every time I hear or see that..
Just the other day at target I heard a mom say, if you stop whining Ill let you get the doll and the dress.??????? WHHHAAAATTTT!!

It does really sound like this child just isn't ready for your group, despite age.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:59 AM
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Dude, I was giving you a compliment. (Witty- showing or characterized by quick and inventive verbal humor.) It is so hard to ascertain intention and tone via text conversation. My intended tone is playful neutrality.
Thank you.
I was however, not offended by anything you said or feeling as though I misunderstood you... and trust me I totally understand the difficulty in comprehending intention or tone in written prose....I've been around the block here a time or two.

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Thank you and while I appreciate your input, I have already made clear, this is not an issue of age. I am sorry if that type of behavior is a usual occurrence with your little ones, that must be exhausting!

It's not exhausting at all My toddlers do behave for the most part, in a similar way but because my environment and my expectations are appropriate for the age, it's not an issue and it's not exhausting for me at all....

I AM curious though as to how you have concluded that this is not an age issue. (other than your personal experiences).
What exactly has lead you to believe this is not age related? If there is more to the story, please share.
Perhaps I will ultimately see things from your perspective but so far from what you have shared, I DO see these behaviors as age related.

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I have never encountered this level of behavior issues from other kiddos and have much for comparison. None of the other children, same age, act this way. It is a matter of compatibility for the group and I wondered if “sticking it out” was appropriate.
Just because you have never encountered such behaviors doesn't mean it's not normal, age appropriate or that it's him.

It just means YOU have never encountered this before.

I am curious though... what is "much" for comparison?
What is your experience in early childhood?

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How would you feel if this DCK was repeatedly bullying your child and showed no sign of improvement?
Is it YOUR child he is "bullying"?

I honestly don't feel that is an appropriate description for his behaviors as he first needs to understand and have mastered certain skills in order to know how to be a bully to others. Perspective thinking isn't something he has an experience with so bullying is probably not the correct term here.

If it were MY child, I would want to know what the provider is doing to curb or eliminate the behaviors toward my child but I would not place blame on the child themselves but instead look to the environment (including the caregiver/teacher) as to the root or cause of the behavior.

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How would you feel if you were the DCK in questions parent and was repeatedly told DCK had to play separately again today because of the behavior?
If I were the DCB's parent and was repeated told my child again had to play separately, I'd be utilizing my lunch hour and any other free time I had to find alternate care for my child. I would simply assume that your program and my child are not a good fit. NOT that either is faulty...just not good together.

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It is not fair to DCK or the group.
Not all of us are willing to work with this behavior and yay, we don’t have to!!!
Nope we definitely don't have to so if you feel this child does not meet YOUR expectations of what a 2 year old is, then by all means terminate.

It would probably be in his best interest.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:04 AM
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I guess I didn't realize how young the child is. that was a very good point BC

I mostly 3 and 4.5 year olds. I have new guy that just turned two and he does very well in my program, but I also don't expose him to the same things I do the other kids nor do I expect him to do what they can.

are you able to manage something where the other kids can do painting and playdough, while the 2 year old rug plays with toys within his developmental expectations??
All my other 2.5s play well with playdough, paint, color and participate in group activities to their ability. I am obviously not sitting them down to do algebra problems. It is perfectly reasonable and developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5yo to experiment with paint, dirt, bubbles, the works! They learn through exposure. Even my one-year old paints! DCK would not be “willing” to play on the floor while the other children participated. Do you exclude willing participants? I do when it goes in the mouth. In this business, (for most of us) compatibility is EVERYTHING. I agree with previous statements. DCK needs a different environment. One with multiple teachers; a center.
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Old 07-17-2017, 09:30 AM
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My real life example is. "If you stop yelling, I will give you and Oreo." BC, you must see relation to the behavior in this at least?
I do see the relation.....but THAT is the key.

Parents can parent in whatever manner they choose to parent and the result is they reap what they sew.

The same is applicable to you.

The environment and the expectations set the child up for failure or success.
The best part is YOU get to decide which of those behaviors you want to encourage or discourage.

I have A LOT of parents that don't parent, permissively parent, helicopter parent and do all sorts of things that make me roll my eyes (hopefully not outloud ) but I impact the child's behaviors here by the rules, expectations and physical set up of my environment REGARDLESS of parenting style at home. (of course there will always be exceptions but 99% of the kids I have are parented vastly different at home yet display different behaviors here).

"If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo...."

translates to:

If you do X, you will get Y. That works in positive ways too! You just have to be 2 steps ahead of him. We all get from Point A to Point B but the roads we take to get there are all different and not everyone travels the freeway.
Some take the roads less traveled.


Here is a personal example I have shared numerous times (so I'll give the Cliff Note's version):

I have 2 children of my own.

When entering a store I told my daughter if she behaved and followed the rules she could earn $1 to spend upon checking out at the end of our shopping excursion. She understood and complied with that version of "If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo" Easy peasy.


My son was given the same rules and expectations. He would usually lose the reward within 3 minutes of entering the store. Then I figured out the issue. I was expecting him to travel from A to B in the same manner as my daughter. MISTAKE.

So I tried another approach but with the same expectations and outcome.

Upon entering the store I gave my son 10 dimes. I told him each time I had to redirect him or remind him of the rules he would have to give me a dime. Then and only IF he had enough money left at the check out he could buy a reward.

So in BOTH cases I achieved the same results but did so completely differently.

There is a saying I learned very early on in my journey towards early childhood education......(however let me preface it by saying I am NOT saying this to YOU, just that it helped me understand how to change my thought process when it came to teaching, directing, redirecting an educating kids)

This statement made HUGE impact in how I not only operate my business but in how I teach the children in my care and manage challenging behaviors.

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Old 07-17-2017, 09:32 AM
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All my other 2.5s play well with playdough, paint, color and participate in group activities to their ability. I am obviously not sitting them down to do algebra problems. It is perfectly reasonable and developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5yo to experiment with paint, dirt, bubbles, the works! They learn through exposure. Even my one-year old paints! DCK would not be “willing” to play on the floor while the other children participated. Do you exclude willing participants? I do when it goes in the mouth. In this business, (for most of us) compatibility is EVERYTHING. I agree with previous statements. DCK needs a different environment. One with multiple teachers; a center.
I agree that it is developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5 year old to experiment with everything, but some just can't. I have that kid now. so instead I just give him his own play space, but looks like you already tried that and it didn't work.

I am starting to see more and more kids that don't want to paint, get dirty, experiment and etc. Wonder if the video game/ipad has something to do with this. Parents don't expose them to other things so they don't know how to play or participate in anyway. I have a 4 year old that is like this right now. But it's not his fault that he has not been provided opportunities to learn these things, it is the parents.


I think you know what you want to do and also agree sounds like a different environment with more adults is what this kid needs.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:01 AM
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Thank you.
I was however, not offended by anything you said or feeling as though I misunderstood you... and trust me I totally understand the difficulty in comprehending intention or tone in written prose....I've been around the block here a time or two.




It's not exhausting at all My toddlers do behave for the most part, in a similar way but because my environment and my expectations are appropriate for the age, it's not an issue and it's not exhausting for me at all....

I AM curious though as to how you have concluded that this is not an age issue. (other than your personal experiences).
What exactly has lead you to believe this is not age related? If there is more to the story, please share.
Perhaps I will ultimately see things from your perspective but so far from what you have shared, I DO see these behaviors as age related.



Just because you have never encountered such behaviors doesn't mean it's not normal, age appropriate or that it's him.

It just means YOU have never encountered this before.

I am curious though... what is "much" for comparison?
What is your experience in early childhood?



Is it YOUR child he is "bullying"?

I honestly don't feel that is an appropriate description for his behaviors as he first needs to understand and have mastered certain skills in order to know how to be a bully to others. Perspective thinking isn't something he has an experience with so bullying is probably not the correct term here.

If it were MY child, I would want to know what the provider is doing to curb or eliminate the behaviors toward my child but I would not place blame on the child themselves but instead look to the environment (including the caregiver/teacher) as to the root or cause of the behavior.



If I were the DCB's parent and was repeated told my child again had to play separately, I'd be utilizing my lunch hour and any other free time I had to find alternate care for my child. I would simply assume that your program and my child are not a good fit. NOT that either is faulty...just not good together.



Nope we definitely don't have to so if you feel this child does not meet YOUR expectations of what a 2 year old is, then by all means terminate.

It would probably be in his best interest.
Nine years family center, 7 years Mom x3. Let me guess, yours is more… and you will tell us all about it. (That was me being catty. Sarcastically of course)

Not my kids, they walk away. To bully implies intent, yes. DCK is certainly able to be held accountable for actions at this age. DCK is not corrected at home.

I definitely agree with and respect your point. Some two and a half year olds do act this way. However, “refreshing my idea of typical behavior” will not change the fact that the behavior is driving everyone bananas. Kiddo needs a center where DCK won’t become excluded. The DCKs just being two (and a half) cliché’ does not suit this circumstance. I want DCK to get the best care possible and I don’t think my place is it anymore. A fit we are not.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:03 AM
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I agree that it is developmentally appropriate to allow a 2.5 year old to experiment with everything, but some just can't. I have that kid now. so instead I just give him his own play space, but looks like you already tried that and it didn't work.

I am starting to see more and more kids that don't want to paint, get dirty, experiment and etc. Wonder if the video game/ipad has something to do with this. Parents don't expose them to other things so they don't know how to play or participate in anyway. I have a 4 year old that is like this right now. But it's not his fault that he has not been provided opportunities to learn these things, it is the parents.


I think you know what you want to do and also agree sounds like a different environment with more adults is what this kid needs.
That is a very insightful point. Generations are certainly shifting in focus! TV has become an activity.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Blackcat31 View Post
I do see the relation.....but THAT is the key.

Parents can parent in whatever manner they choose to parent and the result is they reap what they sew.

The same is applicable to you.

The environment and the expectations set the child up for failure or success.
The best part is YOU get to decide which of those behaviors you want to encourage or discourage.

I have A LOT of parents that don't parent, permissively parent, helicopter parent and do all sorts of things that make me roll my eyes (hopefully not outloud ) but I impact the child's behaviors here by the rules, expectations and physical set up of my environment REGARDLESS of parenting style at home. (of course there will always be exceptions but 99% of the kids I have are parented vastly different at home yet display different behaviors here).

"If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo...."

translates to:

If you do X, you will get Y. That works in positive ways too! You just have to be 2 steps ahead of him. We all get from Point A to Point B but the roads we take to get there are all different and not everyone travels the freeway.
Some take the roads less traveled.


Here is a personal example I have shared numerous times (so I'll give the Cliff Note's version):

I have 2 children of my own.

When entering a store I told my daughter if she behaved and followed the rules she could earn $1 to spend upon checking out at the end of our shopping excursion. She understood and complied with that version of "If you stop yelling I will give you an Oreo" Easy peasy.


My son was given the same rules and expectations. He would usually lose the reward within 3 minutes of entering the store. Then I figured out the issue. I was expecting him to travel from A to B in the same manner as my daughter. MISTAKE.

So I tried another approach but with the same expectations and outcome.

Upon entering the store I gave my son 10 dimes. I told him each time I had to redirect him or remind him of the rules he would have to give me a dime. Then and only IF he had enough money left at the check out he could buy a reward.

So in BOTH cases I achieved the same results but did so completely differently.

There is a saying I learned very early on in my journey towards early childhood education......(however let me preface it by saying I am NOT saying this to YOU, just that it helped me understand how to change my thought process when it came to teaching, directing, redirecting an educating kids)

This statement made HUGE impact in how I not only operate my business but in how I teach the children in my care and manage challenging behaviors.

Yes, you definitely seem firm and confident! That is paramount. I need to cultivate that in working with the parents.
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:21 AM
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Annalee Annalee is offline
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Yes, you definitely seem firm and confident! That is paramount. I need to cultivate that in working with the parents.
There is a professional way to be firm and confident. I have found this persona with a non-negotiable approach reaps great dividends. Every time I have tried to "bend" in the name of being "nice" it comes back to bite me. Saying what I mean and meaning what I say works better. Not saying I have mastered this but after 25 years in FCC, I am much better at it!
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Old 07-17-2017, 10:30 AM
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Mummy101 Mummy101 is offline
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Originally Posted by Annalee View Post
There is a professional way to be firm and confident. I have found this persona with a non-negotiable approach reaps great dividends. Every time I have tried to "bend" in the name of being "nice" it comes back to bite me. Saying what I mean and meaning what I say works better. Not saying I have mastered this but after 25 years in FCC, I am much better at it!
I can't wait to reach that point. I truly admire those of you with a backbone!
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Old 07-17-2017, 01:06 PM
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Blackcat31 Blackcat31 is offline
 
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Nine years family center, 7 years Mom x3. Let me guess, yours is more… and you will tell us all about it. (That was me being catty. Sarcastically of course)
No, I am not going to tell you all about it.

I am not the one asking for advice.

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Originally Posted by Mummy101 View Post
Not my kids, they walk away. To bully implies intent, yes. DCK is certainly able to be held accountable for actions at this age. DCK is not corrected at home.
I agree that he is able to be held accountable for his actions but only those he knows/understands and is able to comprehend.

Do you believe DCB's behavior is solely dependent on the fact that he's not corrected at home?

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Originally Posted by Mummy101 View Post
I definitely agree with and respect your point. Some two and a half year olds do act this way. However, “refreshing my idea of typical behavior” will not change the fact that the behavior is driving everyone bananas. Kiddo needs a center where DCK won’t become excluded. The DCKs just being two (and a half) cliché’ does not suit this circumstance. I want DCK to get the best care possible and I don’t think my place is it anymore. A fit we are not.
I suggested you refresh your knowledge of appropriate behaviors for this age. Not your idea of typical behaviors.

However, my point was, his behavior IS appropriate for his age. Not necessarily typical but appropriate nonetheless.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:05 AM
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Josiegirl Josiegirl is online now
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It boils down to the fact that this particular child is a handful, you have much better days without him there, and every post here from you, indicates you want and need to let him go. There is nothing wrong with that. Let go of the guilt, tell dcm/dcd you believe he would do much better within a different group. Dcb will do fine, dcf will find a better fit and you will have more peaceful days. Sounds like a win-win to me.

Looking back there are several kiddos I should've taken that path with but I'm always second guessing myself, my methods, etc. So I've held onto them. They change and evolve as they age/mature. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes not. If the dcps and you are not in line with each other, it makes it that much more difficult to create a united front. It can work but it may be more difficult.

Wishing you best of luck with your little guy!!
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