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Parents and Guardians Forum>Provider's PAID Vacation?
Unregistered 05:41 AM 02-28-2011
can a daycare legally charge you for their vacation when you have to find dayceare somewhere else for that time, plus child care assistance won't cover that extra charge.
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Little People 05:45 AM 02-28-2011
If a provider gave you a handbook, was her vacation listed in the handbood as..Provider gets PAID for her vacation, and if so and you signed a contract, then yes you are required to pay your provider.

In my handbook it states that Provider will take 2 weeks vacation and 1 week is a PAID vacation. So all my parents sign my handbook and are aware BEFORE they sign that I do take a 1 week vacation and it is paid.
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Cat Herder 06:27 AM 02-28-2011
Absolutely.

Assistance is just that...it was never intended to pay the full load....

Sorry, it should have been in your handbook with plenty of notice to save money in advance though.

If not, you may have a chance of getting the provider to work with you a bit. If not, it falls on you.

Good luck and I hope everything else about your child's care is going well?
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kendallina 08:01 AM 02-28-2011
It's absolutely legal and as others have said, if you signed a contract that states you have to pay when provider is on vacations, then you have to pay.

That is why reading your contract before you sign is SOOOO IMPORTANT!

Some providers charge for their vacation time, some do not. I honestly, cannot imagine asking parents to pay for my vacation time when they still have to pay for someone else to watch their children during that time. But, that's just me.
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Unregistered 05:15 AM 07-15-2012
Originally Posted by Little People:
If a provider gave you a handbook, was her vacation listed in the handbood as..Provider gets PAID for her vacation, and if so and you signed a contract, then yes you are required to pay your provider.

In my handbook it states that Provider will take 2 weeks vacation and 1 week is a PAID vacation. So all my parents sign my handbook and are aware BEFORE they sign that I do take a 1 week vacation and it is paid.
How about if your kids only go part time and never on Monday. Why would a daycare charge for a Monday. My week at the daycare is Tuesday thru Friday. I don't see why should pay for Mondays over and over again that she is taking off.
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Truly Scrumptious 08:28 AM 07-15-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
How about if your kids only go part time and never on Monday. Why would a daycare charge for a Monday. My week at the daycare is Tuesday thru Friday. I don't see why should pay for Mondays over and over again that she is taking off.

The bottom line is this: They can charge for Monday because it's their business and they can run it like they want to. If you think that's unfair, then you find someone who doesn't charge for Mondays.
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Unregistered 07:27 AM 07-16-2012
Its not about how many days your child attends its about her operating a business five days a week. Once your child is enrolled there is an overhead to pay and if you are not paying your portion of the fee in full then the provider suffers.
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SilverSabre25 07:31 AM 07-16-2012
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
How about if your kids only go part time and never on Monday. Why would a daycare charge for a Monday. My week at the daycare is Tuesday thru Friday. I don't see why should pay for Mondays over and over again that she is taking off.
See, if that's truly what your provider is doing then something is wrong. Perhaps you are misunderstanding...are you saying that she charges you EXTRA for the weeks she takes off a monday? Like, you regularly attend (are contracted for) Tuesday through Friday and pay $100/week ($25/day), then on a week she takes off a Monday are you charged $125?

If that's how she's doing it then that's a really crappy policy IMO.

But if you regularly attend Tuesday through Friday and she takes Monday off and you're still charged $100 then you're not paying for her day off. If she takes off Friday you would still pay $100, not $75.
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Hunni Bee 07:49 PM 07-16-2012
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
See, if that's truly what your provider is doing then something is wrong. Perhaps you are misunderstanding...are you saying that she charges you EXTRA for the weeks she takes off a monday? Like, you regularly attend (are contracted for) Tuesday through Friday and pay $100/week ($25/day), then on a week she takes off a Monday are you charged $125?

If that's how she's doing it then that's a really crappy policy IMO.

But if you regularly attend Tuesday through Friday and she takes Monday off and you're still charged $100 then you're not paying for her day off. If she takes off Friday you would still pay $100, not $75.
The way I read it was that the provider charges for full weeks, but the parent only chooses to send her kids Tuesday through Friday. Her kids are using 5-day slots, but she only wants to pay for four days. That's why she feels she's paying for her provider's "day off".
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SilverSabre25 07:34 AM 07-17-2012
Originally Posted by Hunni Bee:
The way I read it was that the provider charges for full weeks, but the parent only chooses to send her kids Tuesday through Friday. Her kids are using 5-day slots, but she only wants to pay for four days. That's why she feels she's paying for her provider's "day off".
Well, she said her kids are part-time and her "week" is T-F, but provider frequently takes off Mondays. I was honestly curious what their arrangement was, which is why I asked--even though I don't really expect a response.
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SSWonders 08:16 AM 11-25-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
How about if your kids only go part time and never on Monday. Why would a daycare charge for a Monday. My week at the daycare is Tuesday thru Friday. I don't see why should pay for Mondays over and over again that she is taking off.
IF you have a contract for the four days your, and if the holiday falls on a day of the week that is not one of your contracted days, then I as a provider would not charge for it. That would be charging you for a 5 day week when you are contracted for four. I don't think it's fair to charge for a day a child is not regularly scheduled for. I take it one step further here. If I have a part time child that is scheduled to be here when a closed holiday occurs, I give them the option of coming on another day instead, as long as I have room. I get the day off and my income is still the same so my budget isn't affected.

I think I will change my contract just to eliminate any confusion that says a holiday is paid if the child is usually contracted to attend on that day. That's just how I do it.

Each provider is different. It's the contract that matters. What you signed and agreed to in your contract is what you are responsible for. If it wasn't in the contract, then there is a legitimate issue.
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Blackcat31 08:07 AM 02-28-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
can a daycare legally charge you for their vacation when you have to find dayceare somewhere else for that time, plus child care assistance won't cover that extra charge.
I think if it is in the handbook and you signed (agreed to it) then yes, they can charge for it. Providers charge/bill in many different ways to accommodate their business. It is your responsibility as a parent to ask and agree or not agree with it.

Also, assistance is also only intended to assist you in your costs of daycare NOT foot the bill. It is suppose to be in addition to your payments. If they don't cover vacations then you have to do it. I have several childcare families who get assistance and whenever the assistance doesn't cover a total bill for whatever reason, it is the parents responsibility to pay. This includes vacations, late fees, costs outside the covered hours etc.

So, ultimately, if you signed a contract saying vacations are to be paid, then you have to pay it.
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lil angels 09:29 AM 02-28-2011
Oh yes I have 12 days plus my holidays that are paid per year. I need to recharge as much as anyone else does and I look forward to it and nobody says anything to me about it. I let them know at the interview and most say I understand you need your days to.

Maybe you need a center them you wouldn't ever have to worry about daycare closing or being off for vacations.
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Unregistered 09:56 AM 02-28-2011
Some providers charge and others don't. If it's in the contract you signed and in the handbook, you have to pay. If you don't like paying when they're off, you should try to find another provider that doesn't charge when closed. I understand your frustration, because in my area, you have to pay a registration fee, supply fee plus the tuition and fill out all state required paperwork. I interviewed a number of home providers and this issue is the #1 reason I chose center care instead - I don't have enough vacation time to cover my area's home daycare provider's closings each year and cannot afford to pay 2 providers at one time. I recommend that you try a center instead. You may actually get vacation days where you don't have to pay when you don't have your child in care.
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jen 09:59 AM 02-28-2011
Of course!!
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ccmom 12:11 PM 03-22-2011
Being a licensed provider and self-employed business owner, if I do not charge for days off each year....then the monies paid during that time would have to be offset by higher tuition. Providers are very limited in numbers as to how much their business can take in, because state's dictate how many children we can care for and what ages.

Think about it, though. You get paid time off through your employer..why shouldn't a self-employed person have the same benefit? Providers need time to recharge. I choose all of my days off (paid and unpaid) a year ahead of time...so my families have plenty of time to plan.

On the flip side, I also allow my families up to 10 days of family vacation time in which they must give notice...but do not have to pay tuition. Works great for the annual family vacation in the summer, or Christmas break. funny, though....not many of my families ever use more than 3 or 4 days.

You can't please everyone. You just have to pay the bills and keep your sanity in the end.
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Symphony 01:54 PM 03-22-2011
Also think about if you took a weeks vacation and stayed in a hotel with your family. Would you call your landlord/bank and ask to not pay that weeks rent/mortgage since you weren't there and had to pay someone else?
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daycare 02:10 PM 03-22-2011
Originally Posted by Symphony:
Also think about if you took a weeks vacation and stayed in a hotel with your family. Would you call your landlord/bank and ask to not pay that weeks rent/mortgage since you weren't there and had to pay someone else?
love it.....well said....
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Amy 02:02 PM 03-30-2011
ccmom,

That's the first I've heard of a provider giving the family vacation time--I think that's a great reciprocal policy!
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Cat Herder 04:34 AM 03-31-2011
Originally Posted by Amy:
ccmom,

That's the first I've heard of a provider giving the family vacation time--I think that's a great reciprocal policy!
I think it is pretty common, actually.

I personally am closed two seperate weeks a year, posted 12 months in advance, unpaid. (yes, I am that organized ) I take full-time kids, only.

I also offer two weeks, per family, per year unpaid. I do require a 30 day minimum notice so I can adjust expenses. Vacation must be taken a full week at a time to minimize disruption for the other infants and toddlers.

Simple math; they could have a month out unpaid if they planned it right or they could plan their vacations with mine to minimize time off work/with alternate care.

I do expect payment for all other absences including weather and sick days. If I am open, payment is due. I am dependable and I expect them to be as well.

Sadly, even with this I have parents show up at the door when I am closed, calling me on vacation and who try to find loopholes. It is not possible to please everyone.
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Unregistered 10:25 AM 03-31-2011
Originally Posted by Symphony:
Also think about if you took a weeks vacation and stayed in a hotel with your family. Would you call your landlord/bank and ask to not pay that weeks rent/mortgage since you weren't there and had to pay someone else?
VERY well said! The biggest issue I have is paid time off and if kids are sick do parents have to pay!
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Unregistered 03:20 AM 06-11-2011
A friend of mine has 3 kids in day care, the provider has 3 weeks paid vacation, 11 paid holidays and like 7 sick/personal days, all paid! I'm a SAHM and honestly I think that is ridiculous!
Plus, her daycare increased the rate 30% (and she got the list of the days the provider will close for summer vacation, july&august, each time 1 week). My friend came to me crying bc she will be broke! That means MDF has to pay daycare and pay somebody else for her 3 kids! So she'll pay almost $500/week(!) for daycare alone.
Btw, not to many people can afford a family vacation, MDF with her 3 girls spends her vaca days at home. I don't see to many families going on vacation in my neighborhood and most of these families do have a pretty good income (that's for the comment: not paying rent or mortgage, if you go on vacation).
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littlemissmuffet 01:36 PM 06-12-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
A friend of mine has 3 kids in day care, the provider has 3 weeks paid vacation, 11 paid holidays and like 7 sick/personal days, all paid! I'm a SAHM and honestly I think that is ridiculous!
Plus, her daycare increased the rate 30% (and she got the list of the days the provider will close for summer vacation, july&august, each time 1 week). My friend came to me crying bc she will be broke! That means MDF has to pay daycare and pay somebody else for her 3 kids! So she'll pay almost $500/week(!) for daycare alone.
Btw, not to many people can afford a family vacation, MDF with her 3 girls spends her vaca days at home. I don't see to many families going on vacation in my neighborhood and most of these families do have a pretty good income (that's for the comment: not paying rent or mortgage, if you go on vacation).
My paid days off average about 25/year. That is the norm for home daycares in my area. And we eran each and every one of those days

If your friend had 3 children enrolled in my daycare, she would be paying close to $500/week as well - that's BEFORE the additional money she would be paying to an alternate during my days off (although, in all my years of doing home daycare, all of my families have taken their vacation time from work, when I choose my days off each January. It's pretty simple, really). So I think her daycare is actually pretty cheap, at least where I live.

You're right that not too many people can afford a family vacation. I know alot of the providers on here can't. I can't. I stay home when I close the daycare for vacation. So what? I deserve a break from my job just like anyone else... perhaps moreso - childcare is very demanding, difficult and often thankless work (albeit, very rewarding) that not too many people are cut out to do... well.



You have to remember that parents aren't paying for TIME, they are paying for a space...

If your friend doesn't like it, she can forfeit all the dvantages of home family care and go for a center, then she doesn't have to worry or cry any more.
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Unregistered 11:47 AM 02-28-2013
Originally Posted by Symphony:
Also think about if you took a weeks vacation and stayed in a hotel with your family. Would you call your landlord/bank and ask to not pay that weeks rent/mortgage since you weren't there and had to pay someone else?
What a ridiculous argument. A daycare is a business. If a business owner wants to go on vacation and closes, he should take his pay for those weeks out of his profits. Do you pay tuition fees in school even when school closes? No.
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Country Kids 10:23 AM 03-01-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
What a ridiculous argument. A daycare is a business. If a business owner wants to go on vacation and closes, he should take his pay for those weeks out of his profits. Do you pay tuition fees in school even when school closes? No.
Yes, tuition is still do when schools close. Our school still charges the same amount through Nov. (Thankgiving break) Dec. (Christmas break) and March (spring break). The teachers get the same amount of pay those months as they do the other months. Thats why its called Salary pay.

Also, public schools still collect tax dollars even though they are open 9 monts and have about 1 to 1.5 months off even during those 9 months.
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butterfly 12:44 PM 03-01-2013
I do agree with the recent comments, but do you guys realize this thread is 2 years old? Don't let this unregistered poster get you all worked up.
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Unregistered 09:07 AM 11-23-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
What a ridiculous argument. A daycare is a business. If a business owner wants to go on vacation and closes, he should take his pay for those weeks out of his profits. Do you pay tuition fees in school even when school closes? No.
Yes, actually I do. Sorry, but that's just the way it works. In any event, it's incredibly selfish to expect YOUR employer to give to you special benefits and you cry about returning that favor over to the person who keeps your child safe. WTH is wrong with parents?
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lovemykidstoo 10:16 AM 11-23-2013
I say kudos to anyone that can get vacation or sick pay from their daycare parents, however it's not really fair to say that if an employer pays you holiday or vacation pay then it's to be expected that your daycare provider should get same. Your employer does not pay someone else to do your job if you're off for a week, therefore it is not costing your employer double the wage if an employee is off. There is no way in my area that if someone pays me $150 a week and I'm off for a week for them to pay $300 in daycare costs for that week. That does not fly here at all. People cannot afford that here. Again, if that's what you do, then good for you, that's great really! My point is when it's compared to employers and employees it's not comparing apples to apples.
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Unregistered 01:03 PM 05-06-2014
Originally Posted by Symphony:
Also think about if you took a weeks vacation and stayed in a hotel with your family. Would you call your landlord/bank and ask to not pay that weeks rent/mortgage since you weren't there and had to pay someone else?
Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
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Unregistered 01:16 PM 05-06-2014
And also, paying for a gym membership when you don't go, is not even the same thing. If you don't go, then it's your fault that you don't utilize your gym membership. Let's compare apples to apples. My gym doesn't close for 2 weeks out of the year either or every single holiday they can.

I realize that this can be looked at from different angles but as a parent that pays for a home daycare I am obviously stating my side. You can't assume that everyone that pays for daycare is rolling in the dough like some people are, and can afford to pay for your vacations and then have to pay someone else to watch their child while you are on vacation. Just doesn't seem fair. As I said if someone was mowing my lawn every week in the summer, and he was going on vacation with his family, I wouldn't be paying him and then paying someone else to mow it at the same time?

I'm not comparing my child to a lawn or any other commercial service and I am happy with my home daycare but I just find it unfair because not getting a paid vacation is the downside to being self employed. Along with having to pay taxes to be self employed, license fees, health insurance, dental etc etc.
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saved4always 04:39 PM 05-06-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
I think you miss the point that, if a parent signs an agreement that includes paying for the provider's vacation, the parent has to abide by the agreement. I personally did not charge for any time I had off when I provided childcare in my home. That was MY choice in how I ran MY business and how I handled the fees I set. My contract spelled out that the parents did not pay when I had vacation. Other providers DO include payment for vacations in their contracts. That is their choice and obviously plenty of parents accept that since the majority of providers on this forum appear to charge that way. If you sign it, you need to follow it. Just like you abide by a landscaper's contract that spells out the fees they charge and what they will provide or a gyms membership contract.
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craftymissbeth 05:25 PM 05-06-2014
Originally Posted by saved4always:
I think you miss the point that, if a parent signs an agreement that includes paying for the provider's vacation, the parent has to abide by the agreement. I personally did not charge for any time I had off when I provided childcare in my home. That was MY choice in how I ran MY business and how I handled the fees I set. My contract spelled out that the parents did not pay when I had vacation. Other providers DO include payment for vacations in their contracts. That is their choice and obviously plenty of parents accept that since the majority of providers on this forum appear to charge that way. If you sign it, you need to follow it. Just like you abide by a landscaper's contract that spells out the fees they charge and what they will provide or a gyms membership contract.


I don't charge for when I'm closed for any reason, but if that's something that really bothers a parent then there are other child care options. Find a different daycare with policies you agree with, hire a nanny, become a stay at home parent, etc.
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Leigh 08:56 AM 05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.

I lease the spaces in my daycare to my clients for $xxxx per year. I give the option of paying as they wish (weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly). Their lease on that space is not suspended on days off. Just like the lease on my storage garage is not suspended when the garage is empty. I don't consider myself to have "paid vacation", and I don't explain my time off as such. If you want the spot, you commit to paying for it whether you are using it or not. This is a choice that my client makes when they contract with me. I am not trying to pull one over on them. Yes, I CHOSE this profession. I CHOSE to be self-employed, and I CHOSE to run it the way I CHOSE to. My clients also CHOOSE to pay what I ask, and it is not unreasonable to ask them to do what they agreed to do. Just like a private school charging tuition yearly...do parents get a break on payments over Christmas vacation?
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Annalee 09:16 AM 05-07-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
Technically clients are paying for my other benefits I choose to add into my fees/tuition. I know what it will take for me to make money in my business and be able to support/supplement income from my spouse. You are fighting a losing battle here! Whether providers choose to be paid or not for vacation is a choice providers get to make. Find a provider of your choosing/liking but do not hound providers that choose to charge differently than what you agree on.
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Unregistered 09:58 AM 09-03-2014
Wow, what an interesting debate over the years.

I came here trying to find out if this is a general/accepted practice for daycare providers. My only experience was with a daycare center until we chose home daycare for our second child. After reading through some of the explanations (and some are a bit too much on either side) it makes sense. If there are paid vacation/holiday days in the contract, then that's what it is. I have the option to not sign. If I want my child to go to a specific provider, I will have to agree with their rules. It cannot possibly be illegal for any provider to have paid time off.

Hourly workers who do not have "benefits" or "paid time off" are paid wages accordingly. It is normal for hourly workers without benefits to be paid higher than full-time benefited employees.

I hope my child's daycare provider doesn't add medical benefit payments

Its all really simple. Those who put in their time and effort and provide great service for children in their daycare are always full and usually have no open spots with people on wait-list. They deserve to get paid higher. Those who don't really care, offer financially cheaper service but hardly ever get children to care for.

Also, its the same difference if you pay more per week or pay for paid time off.
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Unregistered 09:04 AM 04-30-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Uh, have to disagree there. A mortgage payment for a home that is yours and that will be there when you return is a tad different then paying someone that has not performed a service.

I completely understand that the providers need their time, but this is the line of work they chose, and getting "paid" vacations when you work for a company or state or any other line of work that pays their employees benefits is different from a daycare.

Daycare is expensive as it is, I wouldn't pay a landscape company when they take vacations and don't mow my lawn? I don't pay my paper boy vacations or pay for a newspaper that I wouldn't receive? Do you pay your mechanic if he doesn't fix your car? People work for many places that DO NOT provide benefits, and that is the breaks, I worked for a restaurant they did not pay anything! But I made tips so that was the offset. A daycare is a service of caring for your child, and in my opinion if you are not performing that service than why should you get paid for it?

I can understand the other way around if the parent takes the vacation they must pay. That I get, but if that's the case than why doesn't the parent pay for the daycare providers insurance too?? That's because as a SELF EMPLOYED person you are faced with that. For example you are self employed as a house cleaner, do the homeowners pay for your vacations when you won't be cleaning their home? My very good friend owned her own floral store and so that makes her a self employed individual, I never heard of people having to pay for her vacation?

I understand that the providers need breaks, we all need breaks, of course. But home daycare is a business they chose, concerns of benefits and paid vacations are reasons why self employed people decide to work for someone/company that can afford to provide employees with these benefits. Parents are usually struggling as it is to pay daycare so charging them when you are not performing a service I feel is not so fair. As I said, if we are to pay your vacations then why are we not paying your healthcare or other benefits?

That is why I work for a company that provides these benefits to me. But maybe I should go in to the daycare business.
I COULD raise my rates to reflect my paid time off and then 'not charge' my clients for the days I take off. I just chose to be upfront and keep the rates lower and simplify things. Family child care is a very unique business situation in that we provide services on a daily basis. Most other industries will just raise rates of services to afford them the benefits of working for someone else.

Also, families DO pay for my health insurance. My husband and I are both self employed, and we charge rates high enough to cover operating expenses, insurance, employees, our crazy taxes and our private health insurance policy. All of that comes off the top before we can pay personal bills and expenses.
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Thriftylady 09:43 AM 04-30-2015
I don't currently charge for my vacations. I am not saying I will never change that. I am also not saying I will never raise my rates to cover them. Bottom line is that my policies are my policies. Each parent gets a handbook and we go over it BEFORE a contract is signed. My contract says on it that by signing the parent agrees to the policies in my handbook. It is simple really, if you don't like ANY of my policies, don't sign my contract.
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CheekyChick 09:37 AM 06-22-2011
I have been open for four years and wouldn't dream of asking my parents to pay for my time off. I wish I had the "guts" to do so - I SO need a vacation.
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cheerfuldom 11:28 AM 06-22-2011
I like the idea of working the vacation pay into the weekly rate but around here, people look for a specific rate range and it will be harder to get them to understand that a higher rate/unpaid vacation is the same thing as a lower rate/paid vacation. Most providers around here do get some paid time off so I personally have never had a parent fight me on that too much because my weekly rate is still lower than some other providers.
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Meeko 11:08 AM 06-27-2011
Would you buy a car, sign all the paperwork, take it home and then complain it didn't have a sun roof?

Why sign up for day care, do all the paperwork, bring your child and then whine about what you just agreed to?

If you signed the contract, you AGREED to pay her for her vacations. Done deal.

Always read the contract!!!!!!!! Most day care providers do not physically force clients to sign up!
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renodeb 01:46 PM 05-17-2012
Yep, absolutely legal although I dont do it that way. I dont charge for my vacation and 1/2 for theres. It may have been wedged into the contract/handbook but not in a clause by itself.
Deb
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Unregistered 12:28 PM 07-07-2012
I DON'T charge when I take days off (except a handful of paid holidays) but I do charge if I am open and a child is absent (illness, vacation, etc.). My reasoning is that if I am going to take a weeks vacation I plan on not getting paid that week and budget accordingly, I also know that some of my parents will have to pay another provider so I do not want their expenses to be double. On the other hand I DO charge if they are gone and I am open. I figure they already budget their weekly daycare cost and paying me shouldn't be a problem if they plan a vacation, their child stays home sick or if grandma comes to town and wants to keep them for the day, etc. Another factor to this is that the state only allows me so many children. If a family says they are taking a week off I am not going to be able to find another family to fill that slot and make up the lost income. When I first started I didn't charge if children were sick, had vacation but then all of the kids got sick in one week right before Christmas....I couldn't afford the bills let alone Christmas presents. I have been debating charging for a few paid days off every year that are not paid holidays, my reason is because my family gets sick a few times a year and it is usually because a parent brought a sick child and exposed us (of course they masked the child's symptoms with Tylenol so I wouldn't know they were sick until mid day).
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Unregistered 08:50 AM 11-23-2013
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
can a daycare legally charge you for their vacation when you have to find dayceare somewhere else for that time, plus child care assistance won't cover that extra charge.
If you work for a company that provides benefits: Are you legally entitled to receive vacation pay from your employer even though you won't be working on those days?

If the answer is yes, then why wouldn't the answer be yes for your provider to do the same? The fact that you may have to pay another provider has nothing to do with the fact she can legally receive a paid vacation if it is in her contract and you signed said contract.
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Unregistered 07:09 PM 04-28-2014
Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
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bklsmum 03:15 AM 04-29-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
Most businesses pass their overhead costs onto their customers. What is the difference between charging for the actual week the provider is one vacation or the cost being split up and added to the actually attended weeks?
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MissAnn 04:43 AM 04-29-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
blasphemy and theft....idiots? That's funny, unregistered. You might have too much time on your hands. A hobby perhaps?
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Josiegirl 11:36 AM 04-29-2014
Well gee, maybe if dcproviders didn't get dirt cheap pay for their services their profit margin might be high enough to save a little bit towards a vacation or just a week off. I don't get sick pay, or vacation pay, I get about 5 paid holidays, I have to be here for the 1st child to arrive until the last child leaves. I don't get to 'duck out' of work for a few minutes for a dental appt., dr. appt., to drop my car off at the mechanic, etc., etc. Most of us work 10-11 hr. days, plus plan dc meals, shop for dc meals, clean dc area, keep up with dc paperwork, attend dc workshops, conferences, are part of local dc networks. We have to abide by certain regulations the state expects; certain ways of cleaning, running our dcs a certain way, keeping up with loads of paperwork paperwork paperwork, tolerating parents and inspectors in our homes all the time, having dc insurance, keeping our homes safe, trying to please parents without compromising everything else we're trying to do....all while trying to earn minimum wage or if we're lucky a little bit more. In fact, out of my meager earnings comes toys, equipment, craft supplies, repairs(usually because of damage done by dcks). Oh wait, I could've taken a week's vacation last summer but that would've meant I couldn't have afforded the mulch on my playground to protect the dcks. Thinking about it all, maybe we should have the state regulate our vacations, I'll bet they'd agree we need them and should get them paid!!

The general person has no clue whatsoever, what we spend to stay in business. Tax write-off? Oh sure, but damn, we still have to find that $500 for mulch. So where does it come from? Either the little magic dc fairy or wait, that's right, I didn't get a vacation last year. Now that I think about it, nor did I get one the year before. And the year before that? I did take 2 days when my dad died. Not paid.

Don't ever talk to me about the injustice of paying your cherished provider, the carer of your beloved children a week's pay because s/he needs a break. Care-giving is a hard job, a draining exhausting job. A prime job where burn-out can easily happen. Do you want someone caring for your child, who is burnt to a crisp? Or fresh and fun, their morale has returned because the dcf's have helped them enjoy a measly week off out of 52 of them.

Even with state paid kids, we get to have 10 paid days off a year. I don't take them all. I don't need to because I'm not closed that many.

Most(I'm certainly not saying all) families see more importance in giving their 1 yo a huge birthday party costing easily a couple hundred bucks, buying baby Reeboks, or eating out a couple nights a week, or having the most expensive iphone, car, boat, fill in the damn blank, rather than paying 1 week for their provider to take a breather??

And then yeh, there's always reading the contract before you sign it.
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Leigh 09:54 PM 04-29-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.

Profit margin? There are plenty of daycare providers who make NO profit at all. They don't have the guts to charge what they are worth or what they need.

I charge by the year. I let my clients pay weekly or monthly. I don't discount for my days off. Do I get a rebate on my storage shed if it is empty? Do I get to not pay for the gym membership on days that I don't use it? I could go on and on. There is nothing wrong with charging for days off, ESPECIALLY when you and your client agree on it before entering into a contract that the client signs. I HAPPILY paid my daycare provider for days off-she earned it, just as I do now. The last thing any parent needs is a burned out daycare provider who can't afford to take a day off to recharge, IMO.
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Unregistered 08:02 AM 04-30-2014
One of the earlier posters stated to think about it that we as parents get paid by our employers for vacation so providers should be afforded the same benefit. Here is the difference. Providers are not our employees or employers. I have read countless times on this board that childcare providers are their own boss. They are a service provider. When my maid, landscaper, dog walker or hairdresser go on vacation I don't pay them their normal fees for the week. I either skip that service for the week or I use someone else and pay them their fee.
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Blackcat31 08:55 AM 04-30-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
One of the earlier posters stated to think about it that we as parents get paid by our employers for vacation so providers should be afforded the same benefit. Here is the difference. Providers are not our employees or employers. I have read countless times on this board that childcare providers are their own boss. They are a service provider. When my maid, landscaper, dog walker or hairdresser go on vacation I don't pay them their normal fees for the week. I either skip that service for the week or I use someone else and pay them their fee.
I'd have no issues letting you skip paying me for the week if you paid me half as much as you did your maid, landscaper, dog walker or hair dresser.
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Annalee 09:32 AM 04-30-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I'd have no issues letting you skip paying me for the week if you paid me half as much as you did your maid, landscaper, dog walker or hair dresser.
AMEN TO THIS!
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Meyou 09:04 AM 04-30-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
One of the earlier posters stated to think about it that we as parents get paid by our employers for vacation so providers should be afforded the same benefit. Here is the difference. Providers are not our employees or employers. I have read countless times on this board that childcare providers are their own boss. They are a service provider. When my maid, landscaper, dog walker or hairdresser go on vacation I don't pay them their normal fees for the week. I either skip that service for the week or I use someone else and pay them their fee.
With most child care providers you are signing a contract agreeing to their terms. Once you sign you lose your right to complain about the content of the contract. Read carefully and don't sign if you don't like what you're reading. If you don't want to pay for vacation then use a provider, dog walker, maid or landscaper with those terms.

On a side note...someone with a landscaper, dog walker and maid can probably afford to pay their babysitter for her vacation.
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saved4always 11:05 AM 04-30-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
One of the earlier posters stated to think about it that we as parents get paid by our employers for vacation so providers should be afforded the same benefit. Here is the difference. Providers are not our employees or employers. I have read countless times on this board that childcare providers are their own boss. They are a service provider. When my maid, landscaper, dog walker or hairdresser go on vacation I don't pay them their normal fees for the week. I either skip that service for the week or I use someone else and pay them their fee.
If it is in their contract and you sign it (AGREEING to it by SIGNING it), you sure do pay them what you agreed to!

It is always enlightening to hear complaints about paying for daycare from people who can afford maids, landscapers, and dog walkers. Totally love what Blackcat said above. When I provided childcare, I made $25 for an 8.5+ hour DAY to watch a child. I probably would have made a better living per hour in one of those other services since it seems people are willing to pay more for those luxuries than they are for the care of their CHILD.
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PhotogMum 08:41 PM 04-30-2014
I personally cannot believe how worked up parents get about paying their provider's vacation pay. Your DCP cares for your child(den) every day, in many cases they spend more waking hours with your kids then you do! They are so important in your child's life and they deserve paid vacation.
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Unregistered 06:11 AM 05-04-2014
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
I am just laughing OUT LOUD!

Gym memberships, massage montly fee programs, cable companies, AND MORE: they all charge you for a flat premium that most likely, they know you won't use all of the benefit. They KNOW people sign up thinking "Oh yeah, I'll need to use this" (especially gym membership) and then they don't go. these companies make money off services they don't provide, and KNOW they are unlikely to provide the amount of service they charge for. The bottom line? If the consumer signs the contract, it's a fair practice and the consumer has to pay. Or else? They lose their ability to use the service and get sent to collections or court. Consumers don't like that? They shouldn't sign the dotted line!!!
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Unregistered 02:04 PM 12-14-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
I am just laughing OUT LOUD!

Gym memberships, massage montly fee programs, cable companies, AND MORE: they all charge you for a flat premium that most likely, they know you won't use all of the benefit. They KNOW people sign up thinking "Oh yeah, I'll need to use this" (especially gym membership) and then they don't go. these companies make money off services they don't provide, and KNOW they are unlikely to provide the amount of service they charge for. The bottom line? If the consumer signs the contract, it's a fair practice and the consumer has to pay. Or else? They lose their ability to use the service and get sent to collections or court. Consumers don't like that? They shouldn't sign the dotted line!!!
The big difference here is that if someone signs up for a membership the opportunity is still there for them to use should they want to take advantage of it. They don't just close there doors for a week and expect you to pay. Your quoted contributor is spot on! And your argument doesn't hold water. I don't understand where you and other daycare providers think it is kosh to take advantage of people.
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Second Home 09:30 AM 12-15-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
The big difference here is that if someone signs up for a membership the opportunity is still there for them to use should they want to take advantage of it. They don't just close there doors for a week and expect you to pay.
Actually many places / gyms do , our karate studio takes off 2 weeks per year and closes . I still pay the same monthly fee even though they are closed and we can not attend . But That is what I agreed to when signing the contract.
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daycarediva 09:49 AM 12-15-2016
Originally Posted by Play Care:
I agree with this.

My plumber or electrician may not put "vacation time" on the invoice, but then, they charge $100 just to show up, $50-$75 *per hour* for their work, and then cost of the parts. You bet your a$$ I'm paying for their vacations! And health insurance, and retirement, their kids college, etc. etc.etc.

Can you imagine the outrage if Day Care Providers started charging like other businesses?
$75 opening fee, $50 per hour per child fee, $25 per day diapering fee, $60 per day toilet training fee, etc. etc. etc.
Actually, that doesn't sound like a bad idea,

This is the only profession that gets a bad rap for wanting to be paid a living wage.

But this is the last time I'll post here. I'm not interested in debating a private business owner's policies with anonymous internet trolls.
Yes, my dh is giving his guys two weeks PTO for christmas, and a $500 bonus. One of their wives had the audacity to complain about having to pay their provider for that time. I set her straight, fast.

Like I said before, if I raised rates across the board, it would actually cost my parents MORE than paying for my very limited paid days off.

Originally Posted by Second Home:
Actually many places / gyms do , our karate studio takes off 2 weeks per year and closes . I still pay the same monthly fee even though they are closed and we can not attend . But That is what I agreed to when signing the contract.
Yep. Same with karate and hockey here. Two weeks, and we pay monthly regardless. Same situation in reverse for cable, internet, mortgage when you go on vacation.

Again- DON'T SIGN A CONTRACT YOU DON'T AGREE WITH.
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Leigh 01:09 PM 12-15-2016
Originally Posted by Second Home:
Actually many places / gyms do , our karate studio takes off 2 weeks per year and closes . I still pay the same monthly fee even though they are closed and we can not attend . But That is what I agreed to when signing the contract.
You're right! I quit my gym because their limited hours didn't work for my schedule.
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Unregistered 02:34 PM 12-14-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Myself, I think that charging a customer for a service that is not being provided is blasphemy. I myself own two businesses, one with 40 employees, so I hope that my opinion is taken into consideration.

My employees get vacation time, yes, it is an EMPLOYEE BENIFIT. But do I charge my customers to pay for my employees to go on vacation? Of course not!! This is an overhead cost to running a business. As a business owner, I am stuck with overhead costs.

As a dayhome, these people are running their own business. This cost should be their overhead as well. If they want to pay themselves during their vacation time, it should come out of their profit margins just like every other business out there. A business is a business, you provide a good or service. Charging customers for a service that isn't being provided is NOT RIGHT. It is poor business and, in my opinion, theft. Anyone in their right mind who signs a contract agreeing to this term is an idiot.
Wow, thank you so much for your business minded, yet ethical comment! I'm not sure why daycare providers aren't getting it. As a small business owner this is how I see it as well. But I am not out to take advantage of people in need.
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:52 PM 12-14-2016
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Wow, thank you so much for your business minded, yet ethical comment! I'm not sure why daycare providers aren't getting it. As a small business owner this is how I see it as well. But I am not out to take advantage of people in need.



Apparently your childcare does not fit into that equation. Go ahead...take advantage of the one person who cares for your child! See how far that gets you!
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TheMisplacedMidwestMom 10:51 PM 12-14-2016
I don't understand the problem. If you don't agree with the policy why send your child to that provider? Why get upset? Go to a center where they are always open, you pay more but thats so they can hire someone to cover the class when teacher takes PTO. If you don't like what's on TV get up and change the channel, don't cry about it.
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Josiegirl 03:05 AM 12-15-2016
Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom:
I don't understand the problem. If you don't agree with the policy why send your child to that provider? Why get upset? Go to a center where they are always open, you pay more but thats so they can hire someone to cover the class when teacher takes PTO. If you don't like what's on TV get up and change the channel, don't cry about it.
WELL SAID!!
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renodeb 01:58 PM 07-30-2015
It's totally legal and that provider should have spelled out everything in the contract. I had a provider friend that did that and none of her clients complained because they new it at sign ups.
Deb
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Unregistered 10:11 AM 07-31-2015
Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!
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Blackcat31 10:21 AM 07-31-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!
Personally, I have never taken time off without a HUGE period of notice. I've never had to close due to an emergency and if I did I would not charge my clients but that is me and how I run my business.

I DO think your provider should have something I her handbook/policies that talks about what they will or won't do in the case of emergency closures but if she doesn't you are certainly within your rights to ask for some sort of policy.

In the end it comes down to only a couple things....

working together with your provider so you are BOTH happy

and/or choosing another provider/program that meets your needs better.

Whether you have family or friends in the area has no bearing on the provider's policies as it really isn't her/his concern anymore than her personal life is your problem...kwim?

I am sorry her spaced out vacation days don't work for you personally but on the flip side, another parent probably complains about providers taking too many days off at one time being troublesome to them.

So again, the CURE/FIX is to work together so that the provider can maintain her sanity and income and the parents/clients maintain theirs as well.

What the details of that compromise is, is not a "one size fits all" answer...it's as unique and as individual as each program/provider/center is.
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Blackcat31 10:23 AM 07-31-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?
If you DO have issue with that, then bring it to her attention.

One issue or contractual failure has nothing to do with another.

Just because the provider does not follow or abide by a policy it isn't automatic permission to use that in return.

That's akin to "she hit me so I can hit her back" type thinking.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also a lot of providers have clauses in their contracts that state that amending or waiving a policy can be done at THEIR discretion without voiding the entire contract. No idea if this is the case in your situation but it's something that is important enough to mention.
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Unregistered 11:21 AM 07-31-2015
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
If you DO have issue with that, then bring it to her attention.

One issue or contractual failure has nothing to do with another.

Just because the provider does not follow or abide by a policy it isn't automatic permission to use that in return.

That's akin to "she hit me so I can hit her back" type thinking.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also a lot of providers have clauses in their contracts that state that amending or waiving a policy can be done at THEIR discretion without voiding the entire contract. No idea if this is the case in your situation but it's something that is important enough to mention.

First off, thanks for the response back and doing it in a professional, sincere way. I certainly agree with what you had to say about it must be beneficial for both parties. SO at the risk of sounding like I am arguing (which I promise I am not) I don't totally agree with the above statement. While you are absolutely 100% correct, 2 wrongs don't make a right, if I enter into a contract on good faith with anyone, that contact should be honored till its term. Now are there certain exceptions? Of course, if I am constantly late or missing payments then the provider absolutely has the right to not only terminate that contract early, but send me to collections for missed payments. What I don't like is the thought that a provider (whether it be childcare, cell phone, directv, ect) say "hey this is our contract we both signed, but by the way if I tweak it during its term, that doesn't mean it is a violation of my promise to you, my customer. That would be like if I had my salary cut at work and didn't make as much and came back to my provider and said "hey I can't give you the said payment per month because my income has been cut by 20%, so I am going to cut your pay by 5% to even out the lost monies" I write contracts everyday at work and I know if I put that in any contracts to my customers they would tell me to pound sand

Like I said, I really appreciate your advice and I think you have stated your point well, so don't think I am trying to pick a fight. I just know when I have brought a few things up to my provider, she goes right to the contract, which while can be frustrating, is fair, I signed it and agreed to those terms, I just feel like she should honor those same terms.

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!
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Thriftylady 11:46 AM 07-31-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
First off, thanks for the response back and doing it in a professional, sincere way. I certainly agree with what you had to say about it must be beneficial for both parties. SO at the risk of sounding like I am arguing (which I promise I am not) I don't totally agree with the above statement. While you are absolutely 100% correct, 2 wrongs don't make a right, if I enter into a contract on good faith with anyone, that contact should be honored till its term. Now are there certain exceptions? Of course, if I am constantly late or missing payments then the provider absolutely has the right to not only terminate that contract early, but send me to collections for missed payments. What I don't like is the thought that a provider (whether it be childcare, cell phone, directv, ect) say "hey this is our contract we both signed, but by the way if I tweak it during its term, that doesn't mean it is a violation of my promise to you, my customer. That would be like if I had my salary cut at work and didn't make as much and came back to my provider and said "hey I can't give you the said payment per month because my income has been cut by 20%, so I am going to cut your pay by 5% to even out the lost monies" I write contracts everyday at work and I know if I put that in any contracts to my customers they would tell me to pound sand

Like I said, I really appreciate your advice and I think you have stated your point well, so don't think I am trying to pick a fight. I just know when I have brought a few things up to my provider, she goes right to the contract, which while can be frustrating, is fair, I signed it and agreed to those terms, I just feel like she should honor those same terms.

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!
I kind of disagree with you here. Many service providers DO change their contracts with little or no notice. Just the other day when I paid my hubby's XM radio for his semi, I got online to find out they no longer had his plan and the "new" one I can get costs more. I have two choices, either pay the rate increase with the channel changes or shut off his radio service. I am eating the few bucks, because well my life is just easier keeping the hubby happy in the semi.

You can however discuss this change with her, ask her why or whatever she can at least discuss it with you. Perhaps her food program changed, or the food program or the state told her that her meals and snacks were no properly spaced, or perhaps the kids were not eating the food so she was just throwing it away. The point is, she may have a good reason for it. Then again she may not but you don't know unless you speak with her about it.
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Blackcat31 12:07 PM 07-31-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
First off, thanks for the response back and doing it in a professional, sincere way. I certainly agree with what you had to say about it must be beneficial for both parties. SO at the risk of sounding like I am arguing (which I promise I am not) I don't totally agree with the above statement. While you are absolutely 100% correct, 2 wrongs don't make a right, if I enter into a contract on good faith with anyone, that contact should be honored till its term. Now are there certain exceptions? Of course, if I am constantly late or missing payments then the provider absolutely has the right to not only terminate that contract early, but send me to collections for missed payments. What I don't like is the thought that a provider (whether it be childcare, cell phone, directv, ect) say "hey this is our contract we both signed, but by the way if I tweak it during its term, that doesn't mean it is a violation of my promise to you, my customer. That would be like if I had my salary cut at work and didn't make as much and came back to my provider and said "hey I can't give you the said payment per month because my income has been cut by 20%, so I am going to cut your pay by 5% to even out the lost monies" I write contracts everyday at work and I know if I put that in any contracts to my customers they would tell me to pound sand

Like I said, I really appreciate your advice and I think you have stated your point well, so don't think I am trying to pick a fight. I just know when I have brought a few things up to my provider, she goes right to the contract, which while can be frustrating, is fair, I signed it and agreed to those terms, I just feel like she should honor those same terms.

Thanks again, and have a great weekend!
Actually I agree with you. Personally, I don't have a clause in my contract that I can alter it without negating the whole thing. I just know some providers do and I think they do it to cover their butts in cases just like yours....

The provider reverts back to the contract as her way of supporting HER rights but doesn't give the contract that much weight when it suits her... I think that is bad or not really good business practice and like I said, not something I would do. I get grief a lot because I am one of those providers that thinks I should have to follow my contract just as closely as I expect families to.

The trouble with that though is most (not all) in home family providers are in this business to meet THEIR family's needs and don't plan on staying in this field as a career choice, just more of a "what works for me now" phase while their own little ones are small. Its very common and although there is nothing wrong with that, it creates a whole set of issues that are very unique to what I consider a business.

I don't know...it's really hard when your business is considered a "gray" area since it IS a business but its also run within the context of your family/family life so it's hard in my opinion for some providers to separate that aspect of this job.

It's easier for me because I am an accidental child care provider as I didn't mean to get into this business (that's a whole nother story..my first love was contract law ) but found I do like this field and have chosen to stay but as other forum members can validate for me, I am much more business like than most. I see things very black and white and feel that communication IS the key to every.single issue that arises in this profession. I think 99.9% of issues should be dealt from a logical and factual angle BEFORE allowing the emotional aspects to weigh in. What "fits" one situation isn't always the answer to another.

I think your best bet is to schedule a sit down discussion with your provider and see if you guys can communicate with each other well enough to find a good compromise so that both of you remain happy giving and receiving services.
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e.j. 03:39 PM 08-01-2015
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Before I start another riot, I need to say this, I AM FINE PAYING VACATION TIME, AND HOLIDAYS. My wife and I get paid holidays off, so its not like I am "out money" plus it's free time with my kids which I love. However here are the things I have some frustrations with, and I am wondering if I am out of line being frustrated. I just don't know your business model, so maybe I am out of line with my frustrations:

1st- My provider takes 20 days paid off NOT INCLUDING HOLIDAYS, once again that doesn't frustrates me, what does is the fact they are so spread out. Will most providers take a week at a time? We unfortunately don't live near any family so it's really hard finding someone to watch them for a day or two at a time. If they took a week at a time it would justify driving my kids 6 hours to my parents and dropping them off for the week. So what happens is I use all my vacation and my wife's vacation to cover my providers days off, so when we want to take a vacation we have 2 choices, take it unpaid, or plan short vacations around our providers.

2nd- On top of the planned vacation on 4 separate occasions we got a text message the night before telling us they had an emergency and could not be open the next days, yet I still had to pay for that time even though they could not provide services. Considering she has 20 paid days off, shouldn't this come out of their days off? If you break the math down 20 days paid off would basically equal a month off a year, most people (including myself) will get 2 weeks (10 working days) and a week of sick (5 working days) off in a year. IF I have a sick child and my wife can't stay home with them, I have to use either a vacation day or sick day to cover me being home with my children. That is on me so if my provider is either sick or has to close for an emergency, shouldn't that have to come out of their paid time off in their contract?

3rd- (this one was what prompted my question here) Yesterday my provider told me at pick up she had a family issue next week, so I asked her if that would be in place of the 5 days she already has scheduled off for vacation in the month of August, she actually seemed insulted that I would ask her and told me no, YET I still have to pay for those extra 2 days.

4th- We pay a month in advance, so if we try and plan a day off and give my provider a month notice that we would be gone a day or two, we still have to pay or we lose our place in her daycare, so why is it ok that she can tell me a week or even day before she will be closed (outside of holidays and paid time off) and I have to pay, but if I give her plenty of lead time I can't pro-rate the month.

Finally- Since contracts are a hot topic here, in our contract it states that she will provide Breakfast, lunch, and 2 snacks during the day the child is there. Lately we have found out they are only getting one snack (no biggie), but since everyone is so contract sensitive and use that as an argument, then do I have a right to use that in return?

Look I know this sounds like I am bashing my provider, and I am not, she loves all the kids and treats them great, and I trust her and support her, but these things are hard to shake, so what do you think, and I being overly sensitive on this or do I have a reason to feel a little slighted?

Thanks so much!
I've started to respond to this post several times and each time, I've decided to delete my reply and walk away from it. It's really been bothering me for some reason, though, so here goes:

It may seem like a double standard for me to say this but rather than giving you leverage, bringing up the missing snack time just comes across as petty to me. I get the point you're trying to make and I agree the contract should be followed by both parties but...you said yourself that it's "no biggie" so why bring it up? She may start serving the second snack to appease you and to keep you from accusing her of not following her own contract but it won't resolve the real issue: the excessive amount of time she's taking off at your expense.

For the record, I would be extremely frustrated if I were in your shoes - although I would never have signed on with her in the first place. Those 20 paid days off in addition to holidays would have been a deal breaker for me.
What amounts to unlimited time off with pay would definitely not have worked for me when I had my child in day care. I didn't have friends or family who could watch my child at a moments notice (they all had jobs and kids, too!) so I would have lost my job trying to cover her time off.

I agree with the suggestion to discuss the issue with her to see if a compromise can be reached. (She's got a good thing going, though, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change!) If a compromise isn't possible, I would start looking for another provider with policies more in sync with what works best for you.
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Thriftylady 03:50 PM 08-01-2015
Originally Posted by e.j.:
I've started to respond to this post several times and each time, I've decided to delete my reply and walk away from it. It's really been bothering me for some reason, though, so here goes:

It may seem like a double standard for me to say this but rather than giving you leverage, bringing up the missing snack time just comes across as petty to me. I get the point you're trying to make and I agree the contract should be followed by both parties but...you said yourself that it's "no biggie" so why bring it up? She may start serving the second snack to appease you and to keep you from accusing her of not following her own contract but it won't resolve the real issue: the excessive amount of time she's taking off at your expense.

For the record, I would be extremely frustrated if I were in your shoes - although I would never have signed on with her in the first place. Those 20 paid days off in addition to holidays would have been a deal breaker for me.
What amounts to unlimited time off with pay would definitely not have worked for me when I had my child in day care. I didn't have friends or family who could watch my child at a moments notice (they all had jobs and kids, too!) so I would have lost my job trying to cover her time off.

I agree with the suggestion to discuss the issue with her to see if a compromise can be reached. (She's got a good thing going, though, so I wouldn't hold out too much hope that anything will change!) If a compromise isn't possible, I would start looking for another provider with policies more in sync with what works best for you.
I agree with this. I personally would never sign a contract with a provider who took that many days off either. I have never had a job that would allow that much time off or people that could help me fill in. I don't take near that amount of time off. BUT once you sign the contract, you are stuck. Your only option is to find a new provider and end your contract.
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Unregistered 05:09 PM 08-06-2015
Originally Posted by Thriftylady:
I agree with this. I personally would never sign a contract with a provider who took that many days off either. I have never had a job that would allow that much time off or people that could help me fill in. I don't take near that amount of time off. BUT once you sign the contract, you are stuck. Your only option is to find a new provider and end your contract.
Thanks for the responses. I should have been more specific on why we chose our current provider. We had our children in a early child development center (basically a school setting that went from infant through preschool) and this center basically followed the public school's schedule. So all major holidays, plus spring and winter breaks, and teacher institution days. The catch was when there was a snow/cold weather day and the public school closed, so did our provider. Now where we live we get A LOT of those during the winter months. So when we averaged out the time my current provide has off in her contract compared to the time off my previous provider had off, and figured in bad weather days off it was basically a push.

So maybe I had gotten off topic in my original post, because it seems that everyone is going back to my contract and the days off. As I stated, I knew the days off before I signed the contract, what my questions really is, should I be responsible paying for last minute days off that are not in my providers schedule? Now let me clarify that, I get things come up, however if you need a day off due to sickness, emergency, ect. Shouldn't that come out of their days off they had planned? If I have a week vacation planned and I have a kid that comes down with the flu and I have to take a few days off, then that comes out of my vacation and or sick day. I don't get to add on extra days. Anyways I do have a meeting with her coming up next week to discuss this. The reason I am coming here was simple to see if this was common practice.

Thanks again
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Tags:choose the right provider, daycare environment, paid holidays, paid vacations, read your contract, starting a daycare
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