Can't Figure This One Out

[daycare]

I am really struggling with a dck. I have had this family with me for about 8 years. I am on their last child. This one is much different than the rest of the family, of course last born..

little back story. Parents are very type A personality. super nice and down to earth family. I know that their way of correcting behavior is not something I agree with, but not my child. For the record, I do not suspect abuse.

the child has very good behavior, but what is stumping me is that for no reason at all the child out of no where will just start crying, scream crying to be exact.

No one is near the child when it happens. We have taken observations to see what is happening before and after the crying takes place, we can't put our finger on anything. It does seem to me that is for attention , but I can't ignore this.

Example yesterday we are playing play-dough in small groups. the setting was very quite and nice inside. All of a sudden the crying starts. this time it's not scream crying, it's just crying. No one did anything to her, she was not frustrated with anything and I have no clue what is setting her off. She is almost 4.

This morning, crying during breakfast for no reason at all. We asked her are you too tired to eat and she said yes, is currently laying down. Currently is trying to jump all over the nap mat, so not tired at all.

When she cries I move her to the crying spot. to which she is given a teddy bear/ animal to cuddle with. She would stay there all day if I would let her. the crying does stop there.

I have tried talking to the child when they are no upset, but that upsets them.

I talked to DCM about it and the response was that the child is forcing theselves to cry on purpose???????

I am so lost on what to do....

[Ariana]

I currently have two kids who are very similar. The only thing I can come up with are major sensitivity issues.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Ariana

I currently have two kids who are very similar. The only thing I can come up with are major sensitivity issues.

agree. it's just so frustrating for me, because I am starting to feel there is nothing that I can do to be proactive about it.

what do you find that works for your kids?

[Snowmom]

What is the age?

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Snowmom

What is the age?

Almost 4

[kendallina]

Besides this, is she "typical" socially? Does she have friends? Make eye contact? Does she communicate well about other things? Does she normally seem happy? Is she getting enough sleep?

[daycare]

Originally Posted by kendallina

Besides this, is she "typical" socially? Does she have friends? Make eye contact? Does she communicate well about other things? Does she normally seem happy? Is she getting enough sleep?

Everything seems normal with the child. As far as sleep
Goes I am being told that she's in a good routine. I do believe the family as they have had other kids with me and the slept on good routines.

[EntropyControlSpecialist]

Does this random breakdown net her a lot of attention from her older siblings? I am guessing it's an attention getting technique. I'd just point her to the crying spot and not give it any attention at all.

[Annalee]

Originally Posted by daycare

I am really struggling with a dck. I have had this family with me for about 8 years. I am on their last child. This one is much different than the rest of the family, of course last born..

little back story. Parents are very type A personality. super nice and down to earth family. I know that their way of correcting behavior is not something I agree with, but not my child. For the record, I do not suspect abuse.

the child has very good behavior, but what is stumping me is that for no reason at all the child out of no where will just start crying, scream crying to be exact.

No one is near the child when it happens. We have taken observations to see what is happening before and after the crying takes place, we can't put our finger on anything. It does seem to me that is for attention , but I can't ignore this.

Example yesterday we are playing play-dough in small groups. the setting was very quite and nice inside. All of a sudden the crying starts. this time it's not scream crying, it's just crying. No one did anything to her, she was not frustrated with anything and I have no clue what is setting her off. She is almost 4.

This morning, crying during breakfast for no reason at all. We asked her are you too tired to eat and she said yes, is currently laying down. Currently is trying to jump all over the nap mat, so not tired at all.

When she cries I move her to the crying spot. to which she is given a teddy bear/ animal to cuddle with. She would stay there all day if I would let her. the crying does stop there.

I have tried talking to the child when they are no upset, but that upsets them.

I talked to DCM about it and the response was that the child is forcing theselves to cry on purpose???????

I am so lost on what to do....

This may not be happening in your situation, but I had a family for nine years and on the fourth and last child, she began acting out. The parents ended up getting divorced and it was a long two years before I realized what was REALLY happening. Neither side opened up for a while and sadly, they moved to another city (where dad's job was) to co-parent per court orders. It was a long drawn out ordeal and very sad. Not how I envisioned our departure from each other after so many positive years together. Maybe something is going on in the home that has not come out yet? Good luck to you!

[kendallina]

Almost 4 and can't communicate at all about why she's crying?? I'd probably completely ignore the crying but keep her where she is (unless she's screaming). I don't do a crying spot. Id try to engage her in whatever we're doing in an all-business manner. If that didn't work, Id have no idea. That's new one for me! She does this at home too?

[daycarediva]

I agree with ECS, I would NOT give attention.

Make the cry spot less fun. No toys. One soft chair.

She screams, point to the chair.

I suspect she is babied as the youngest and gets a LOT of attention for tears.

[Snowmom]

Has she always been like this?

You mentioned mom said she does it on purpose- so she does do it at home? What is the parent's response when it happens?

She could have some sensory issues and this is her way of coping. Or she could be overly sensitive (although I hate that label). Or she could be doing it to garner attention in a large family. Either way, I think you're on the right track with giving her a space to just cry.

As others said, I wouldn't give it much attention beyond telling her that if she wants to talk, you are more than happy to listen.

[Ariana]

Originally Posted by daycare

agree. it's just so frustrating for me, because I am starting to feel there is nothing that I can do to be proactive about it.

what do you find that works for your kids?

I am lucky because I only have them 2-3 days a week and some days they don't do it at all. Not much I can do about it. One of them does odd things at home that he doesnt do here as well, like falling down and clutching his legs in pain.

[Indoorvoice]

I have a very similar child. Same age too. She used to come bouncing into my home happy to see me and now she comes in crying on and off for the morning every morning. For this child, she just got a new brother and I'm suspecting she's getting her way a lot at home with tears. Has this always been the case for this dck, or did she just recently start doing this. I'm guessing there is some sort of change going on in her life if it just started.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by EntropyControlSpecialist

Does this random breakdown net her a lot of attention from her older siblings? I am guessing it's an attention getting technique. I'd just point her to the crying spot and not give it any attention at all.

she is getting negative attention for it at home, I do think she is trying do anything to get attention from us. Although t we don't give any negative attention to it.

as someone suggested, we carry on like it's no big deal and business as usual. NO change in our voice of any kind. we just say oh no, you are crying or we point and say take a deep breath, you're ok and she goes to the crying spot. I will have to go over and say wow you look happy, it's time to go dance, or play or etc. and she will move on. Moments later it all happens all over again. 3 times during art time, 4 times during lunch, 4 more times transitioning between lunch to nap time.

She has lots of friends here, been here since age 16months and normally plays well. Of course from time to time she struggles. Her older sibling was quite the little burst of energy to put it kindly.

He also did things like this when he was here to get attention, but it was not crying and we were able to see when he was going to explode on someone. In this case we never see it coming.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Indoorvoice

I have a very similar child. Same age too. She used to come bouncing into my home happy to see me and now she comes in crying on and off for the morning every morning. For this child, she just got a new brother and I'm suspecting she's getting her way a lot at home with tears. Has this always been the case for this dck, or did she just recently start doing this. I'm guessing there is some sort of change going on in her life if it just started.

It started about 3 weeks ago

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Snowmom

Has she always been like this?

You mentioned mom said she does it on purpose- so she does do it at home? What is the parent's response when it happens?

She could have some sensory issues and this is her way of coping. Or she could be overly sensitive (although I hate that label). Or she could be doing it to garner attention in a large family. Either way, I think you're on the right track with giving her a space to just cry.

As others said, I wouldn't give it much attention beyond telling her that if she wants to talk, you are more than happy to listen.

I have thought about this too, but this child is loud and loves loud. When she talks it's like she is screaming in your face, she sings loud reads loud, plays loud. She can be quite the tough cookie at times when she falls, normally very cooperative and has a great vocabulary.

I just got off phone with Dcm. She said at home she feels like the crying is fake and does it on purpose so they send her to her room. She also told me she sits in front of the mirror in her room to watch self cry???? Very odd.

Again I have no clue.

[TheMisplacedMidwestMom]

Can I ask why you have her leave the crying spot? Why not just leave her there for as long as she likes? You mentioned earlier she would stay there all day... I think I'd let her, she'll eventually figure out it's no fun.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom

Can I ask why you have her leave the crying spot? Why not just leave her there for as long as she likes? You mentioned earlier she would stay there all day... I think I'd let her, she'll eventually figure out it's no fun.

For supervision reasons. We go outside or in the other room which we wouldn't be able to see her.

[flying_babyb]

Originally Posted by daycare

For supervision reasons. We go outside or in the other room which we wouldn't be able to see her.

try a portable crying spot! we have a red square that we put down and thats the crying spot. we take it outside with us if needed too. kinda like super nannys Naughty spot!

[debbiedoeszip]

Could there be something physically wrong with the child causing pain or discomfort that leads to the crying/screaming? Much as I would not want to feed attention seeking behaviour, I also wouldn't feel comfortable just ignoring her behaviour and assuming that it's attention seeking. I'd want all avenues investigated before deciding to ignore. Has mom taken her for a medical check up since this began?

[daycare]

Originally Posted by debbiedoeszip

Could there be something physically wrong with the child causing pain or discomfort that leads to the crying/screaming? Much as I would not want to feed attention seeking behaviour, I also wouldn't feel comfortable just ignoring her behaviour and assuming that it's attention seeking. I'd want all avenues investigated before deciding to ignore. Has mom taken her for a medical check up since this began?

since the child is verbal, we have asked what hurts and according to her everything hurts. her hair, her shirt, her fingernails, etc. DCP are very quick to get medical help when it's needed, but they really don't feel there is anything going on other than the crying. I also have not witnessed anything that would cause the crying. I did look that over, I do feel as you do

[Annalee]

Originally Posted by daycare

since the child is verbal, we have asked what hurts and according to her everything hurts. her hair, her shirt, her fingernails, etc. DCP are very quick to get medical help when it's needed,but they really don't feel there is anything going on other than the crying. I also have not witnessed anything that would cause the crying. I did look that over, I do feel as you do

I hope this is just something that will pass, but the child I mentioned earlier was not only crying acting out but also twirling her hair and had made bald spot. When I mentioned to the parents they just blew it off. Again, down the line, I realized there were home issues going on.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Annalee

I hope this is just something that will pass, but the child I mentioned earlier was not only crying acting out but also twirling her hair and had made bald spot. When I mentioned to the parents they just blew it off. Again, down the line, I realized there were home issues going on.

I am starting to wonder if there are issues going on at home since you mentioned it. I am not too sure how to bring it up to the DCM as I know her very well and she will just blow it off. I do know that the DCM is gone a lot, but that is not something new.

they also do take a lot of no kid vacations all year long as well as kid vacations.

[e.j.]

Originally Posted by daycare

since the child is verbal, we have asked what hurts and according to her everything hurts. her hair, her shirt, her fingernails, etc. DCP are very quick to get medical help when it's needed, but they really don't feel there is anything going on other than the crying. I also have not witnessed anything that would cause the crying. I did look that over, I do feel as you do

Possible food allergies? My dd never had any of the usual symptoms of food allergies but complained for years about various, odd aches and pains throughout her body. No one ever thought to test for food allergies. She was finally tested at age 22 and come to find out, she's allergic to pretty much everything. She has to eat something so she was told to focus on the worst - all grains, onion and garlic. It hasn't been a cure all as far as the aches and pains go but it has made a difference.

Also wanted to mention that even though dcg loves loud, she could still have a sensory integration disorder. http://www.thinkingautismguide.com/2...-avoiders.html It might be something for the parents to at least run by her doctor just to see if it might help explain things.

[TheMisplacedMidwestMom]

My thoughts about the crying spot are that if she calms down and is happy there, maybe she just really needs the break. You say when she is directed to return to the activity she is upset again minutes later. I would have a designated spot in each area and if you need to move for supervision let her go to her spot in the new area. Maybe thinking of it as a comfort spot, not a crying spot. Let her join the group at her own pace. If there are possible other stressors at home, she may just really need some down time.

[Pandaluver21]

Originally Posted by TheMisplacedMidwestMom

Can I ask why you have her leave the crying spot? Why not just leave her there for as long as she likes? You mentioned earlier she would stay there all day... I think I'd let her, she'll eventually figure out it's no fun.

We had to do something similar with a little boy when he started at age 3. He would be fine until one tiny thing happend and then cry the rest of the day. I would address it if possible- "I'm sorry you want to keep paying, but it's time to clean up now and I need you to be a big boy" (or something to that effect) and then completely ignore it after that. If he screamed I would tell him "I need you to stop screaming so I can hear everyone" If he did, great. If not I would tell him "If you're going to scream, I need you to do it in the hallway" Once there I would wait until he seemed to calm down, then go over and ask him why he was crying. Usually he would refuse to answer. I told him he is welcome to stay until he is ready to tell me. A few minutes later I would ask again. If he refused to answer again I would tell him "I am going to come back in 5 minutes, your choices are to answer me and we can go play or you can be sad and hang out in the hallway until nap" If he didn't answer the 3rd time around I would leave him there. He completely skipped lunch a few times (mom knew about it) He is now 6 and still occasionally has these breakdowns, but is much quicker to talk to me about it.

Originally Posted by daycare

I have tried talking to the child when they are no upset, but that upsets them.

What about talking about what makes them happy? Insead of asking "why do you get said" ask "what things make you happy?" Often kids will say something like "when my mommy stays home" which gives you an idea that mommy leaving makes her sad. If she doesn't give any of those clues, maybe if she says something like "music makes me happy" then next time she gets said start singing, or playing music. Singing a song she knows/likes might help to get her distracted and singing along.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Pandaluver21

We had to do something similar with a little boy when he started at age 3. He would be fine until one tiny thing happend and then cry the rest of the day. I would address it if possible- "I'm sorry you want to keep paying, but it's time to clean up now and I need you to be a big boy" (or something to that effect) and then completely ignore it after that. If he screamed I would tell him "I need you to stop screaming so I can hear everyone" If he did, great. If not I would tell him "If you're going to scream, I need you to do it in the hallway" Once there I would wait until he seemed to calm down, then go over and ask him why he was crying. Usually he would refuse to answer. I told him he is welcome to stay until he is ready to tell me. A few minutes later I would ask again. If he refused to answer again I would tell him "I am going to come back in 5 minutes, your choices are to answer me and we can go play or you can be sad and hang out in the hallway until nap" If he didn't answer the 3rd time around I would leave him there. He completely skipped lunch a few times (mom knew about it) He is now 6 and still occasionally has these breakdowns, but is much quicker to talk to me about it.



What about talking about what makes them happy? Insead of asking "why do you get said" ask "what things make you happy?" Often kids will say something like "when my mommy stays home" which gives you an idea that mommy leaving makes her sad. If she doesn't give any of those clues, maybe if she says something like "music makes me happy" then next time she gets said start singing, or playing music. Singing a song she knows/likes might help to get her distracted and singing along.

i like the idea of only discussing what makes you happy. I need to focus on that. maybe have her drawl pictures of what makes her happy even when she is not sad....thanks for that reminder of an idea......