Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Kisses! Kisses! More Kisses!!!!!
Tasha 08:54 PM 04-15-2014
I started a new dcg (2 yo) this week. At interview DCM had told me that she was a great napper, so I was very happy to hear that, but when I put her down and started to walk away she started screaming ''KISSES, KISSES, MORE KISSES!!!'' So, okay, I give her a little peck on top of her head and she keeps having a real, honest-to-goodness meltdown, yelling frantically for more kisses. This went on and on until she finally fell asleep. At pickup I ask DCM what that was all about, and she said, OMG, I can't believe I forgot to tell you about our bedtime ritual that we've always done. She said she kisses dcg on the forehead, then on the chin, then on each cheek and finally on the nose. Then DCG is ''happy'' and will fall asleep.
I really don't want to sound like a cold daycare lady here, but it makes me feel uncomfortable to do this. I give lots of hugs but I really don't give a lot of kisses to the daycare kids. Would any of you have a problem with this, or am I just being strange? Has anybody been asked by parents to do anything like this? I hope I don't sound b**chy, just makes me feel weird.
Reply
jenn 09:05 PM 04-15-2014
I will do hugs and high fives, but not kisses. That's a little awkward to me. I wonder if having a stuffed animal or doll give her the go to sleep kisses would work?
Reply
Tasha 09:30 PM 04-15-2014
Thank you Jenn for validating my feelings! Immediately after I posted I wondered if I sounded too mean... I like your idea about the stuff animal.
Reply
Josiegirl 02:40 AM 04-16-2014
I have to be honest here. By the time naptime comes all I want to do is sit down for 5 minutes or go to the bathroom by myself. I don't have much patience left so if it takes forever to get everyone quieted down, I lose what little I have left(until I can breathe again). I'm not mean or anything but I do try to cut it short. The kids gather some books, a stuffed animal or baby to cuddle with. I make sure they're all comfy, then say night night and walk away.
Besides, and this is the ole lady in me talking, that means I'd have to get down on the floor beside 3-4 different kids and do the same thing. I cuddle and hug them all day long, not to mention let them crawl all over me like monkeys. That should be enough.
Reply
daycarediva 03:49 AM 04-16-2014
Start your own naptime routine with dcg. "Kisses are for Mommy! (whatever) is for Miss. Tasha."

Rinse and repeat, she will get it.

We sing the goodnight song (same as our good morning song)

"Goodnight __________. Goodnight _________. Goodnight __________, it's time to say goodnight!"

One hug. One tuck in. One story. Lights out.
Reply
Cradle2crayons 04:23 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Start your own naptime routine with dcg. "Kisses are for Mommy! (whatever) is for Miss. Tasha."

Rinse and repeat, she will get it.

We sing the goodnight song (same as our good morning song)

"Goodnight __________. Goodnight _________. Goodnight __________, it's time to say goodnight!"

One hug. One tuck in. One story. Lights out.
this is what I would do too. When parents tell me of their child's at home routine, if I can't accomodate it, I do our own routine... The kids pick it up quickly.
Reply
EntropyControlSpecialist 05:49 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by Josiegirl:
I have to be honest here. By the time naptime comes all I want to do is sit down for 5 minutes or go to the bathroom by myself. I don't have much patience left so if it takes forever to get everyone quieted down, I lose what little I have left(until I can breathe again). I'm not mean or anything but I do try to cut it short. The kids gather some books, a stuffed animal or baby to cuddle with. I make sure they're all comfy, then say night night and walk away.
Besides, and this is the ole lady in me talking, that means I'd have to get down on the floor beside 3-4 different kids and do the same thing. I cuddle and hug them all day long, not to mention let them crawl all over me like monkeys. That should be enough.
I am the same way. By this time some of the kids have been here for 6 hours and the rest for 5. I am READY.
We do our own naptime routine so I would absolutely clarify to the little child that kisses are for mommy and _whatever_ is for daycare with a big smile.
Reply
CraftyMom 06:13 AM 04-16-2014
You can't accommodate everyone's routines. Imagine doing 6 different nap routines ugh! I would tell mom, "ok, well this is our routine here..." That is mom's routine, not yours
Reply
NightOwl 06:56 AM 04-16-2014
What if you used your finger for the "kisses"? A tap on the head, chin, etc, with a smoochy sound with each one.
Reply
DaisyMamma 07:01 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Start your own naptime routine with dcg. "Kisses are for Mommy! (whatever) is for Miss. Tasha."

Rinse and repeat, she will get it.

We sing the goodnight song (same as our good morning song)

"Goodnight __________. Goodnight _________. Goodnight __________, it's time to say goodnight!"

One hug. One tuck in. One story. Lights out.
This.

I do not kiss daycare kids.
Reply
Blackcat31 07:08 AM 04-16-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
You can't accommodate everyone's routines. Imagine doing 6 different nap routines ugh! I would tell mom, "ok, well this is our routine here..." That is mom's routine, not yours
6 kids?? I have 10-12 kids....

NO WAY am I performing a dozen different rituals.

The kids aren't at home, they are at daycare and at daycare, we do things differently.

Another vote for making your own ritual/routine with her.
Reply
hwichlaz 07:11 AM 04-16-2014
I'd do it, as long as there isn't a kiss on the mouth. BUT I'd have her mom write down the routine and sign it.
Reply
hwichlaz 07:17 AM 04-16-2014
Adding, all but my school aged daycare kids have been with me since they were newborns, so they already regularly get kisses. Just never on the mouth.
Reply
SilverSabre25 07:23 AM 04-16-2014
I like the finger or own routine idea. I stopped VERY quickly asking how parents do things at home. Just not worth the eyerolling and unsuitability for daycare-type things. I don't CARE how they do it at home. Here, I do things MY way. Everyone is happy, everyone naps wonderfully, everyone that I "raise" from infancy is a wonderful eater....
Reply
Tasha 02:25 PM 04-18-2014
I am ready to term, and it has only been a week. I have never seen nor heard anything like this, and she is just too old. Nothing will make her stop screaming at naptime. She exhausts herself and eventually falls asleep but not before getting my other dcks all in an uproar. I wish I could post an audio file of this little girl (who really is precious outside of naptime, and I'm sorry for sounding nasty) start screeching for kisses, except her voice gets hoarse and then gets sobby and gutteral and it sounds a little like the girl from the Exorcist. I've used a Teddy bear, a baby doll, my fingers, told her repeatedly that kisses are for mommy and daddy. Mom is no help whatsoever, because she thinks it's cute. Finally today I just kissed her but I do not want to do that.
Reply
TwinKristi 02:43 PM 04-18-2014
Awww, maybe I'm just a newbie but I'd give her kisses if that's all she needs. No you can't do 12 different routines for all 12 kids but this is just 1. Everyone else goes to sleep well and this is her first week. She's probably never gone to sleep without these kisses. I have a 2yo myself so I guess I just feel that mama pain still. Maybe try giving her kisses and see if it works?
Reply
preschoolteacher 06:54 AM 04-19-2014
I totally get why you wouldn't want to do kisses, but if shes crying like that I would. It likely takes three seconds. In my opinion, much better to need kisses than to be rocked, or a pacifier or lovey to drag around, or to be a child who won't nap. You can slowly wean her from it with time, doing some of the other ideas offered.
Reply
preschoolteacher 06:57 AM 04-19-2014
On the other hand, I do think it's time she Kearns boundaries. You've only known her one week, you're practically a stranger to her. She's getting old enough to learn what's for family and what you don't do with strangers. It can be a lesson in personal safety. I totally contradicted myself in my last response but I see both sides!
Reply
craftymissbeth 09:20 AM 04-19-2014
Honestly, it sounds like this is no longer a cute little routine they do at home, but has become a crutch that she NEEDS in order to fall asleep. I'm all for pacifiers or lovies to help children soothe themselves to sleep, but when a child NEEDS another human being in order to sleep then it doesn't work for me. To me, this is the same as needing to be rocked. She needs to learn how to self soothe. I expect my infants to do it so I'd expect a 2 year old to as well.
Reply
CraftyMom 12:08 PM 04-19-2014
Originally Posted by craftymissbeth:
Honestly, it sounds like this is no longer a cute little routine they do at home, but has become a crutch that she NEEDS in order to fall asleep. I'm all for pacifiers or lovies to help children soothe themselves to sleep, but when a child NEEDS another human being in order to sleep then it doesn't work for me. To me, this is the same as needing to be rocked. She needs to learn how to self soothe. I expect my infants to do it so I'd expect a 2 year old to as well.
I agree with this and add that it's like anything else with children throwing a fit, if you give in they learn that the screaming and carrying on will get them their way, regardless of how long it goes on. I'm sure she isn't looking to feel loved by getting kisses, it has become a habit and a necessity to fall asleep
Reply
TwinKristi 12:51 PM 04-19-2014
But if they're going to continue doing this at home for their bedtime routine how will it ever work at daycare to not do it? I mean, I get that things are diff at home than DC and kids adapt but this may never solve itself if they're doing it at home every.single.time she goes to bed and it may seem extreme to the parents for you to encourage them NOT to kiss their child for their bedtime routine. Maybe talking to them about group care vs home?
Reply
craftymissbeth 03:51 PM 04-19-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
But if they're going to continue doing this at home for their bedtime routine how will it ever work at daycare to not do it? I mean, I get that things are diff at home than DC and kids adapt but this may never solve itself if they're doing it at home every.single.time she goes to bed and it may seem extreme to the parents for you to encourage them NOT to kiss their child for their bedtime routine. Maybe talking to them about group care vs home?
I think a 2 year old is at least on their way to understanding that what happens at daycare is different at home. I my nap time routine is very different than home for all of my dck's. Every one of them "gets" it after a little time.
Reply
hwichlaz 10:57 PM 04-19-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
I am ready to term, and it has only been a week. I have never seen nor heard anything like this, and she is just too old. Nothing will make her stop screaming at naptime. She exhausts herself and eventually falls asleep but not before getting my other dcks all in an uproar. I wish I could post an audio file of this little girl (who really is precious outside of naptime, and I'm sorry for sounding nasty) start screeching for kisses, except her voice gets hoarse and then gets sobby and gutteral and it sounds a little like the girl from the Exorcist. I've used a Teddy bear, a baby doll, my fingers, told her repeatedly that kisses are for mommy and daddy. Mom is no help whatsoever, because she thinks it's cute. Finally today I just kissed her but I do not want to do that.
Please be honest with the parents. Flat out tell them that you are unwilling to do this for the child so they can find someone who will. She has needs that you aren't able to meet.
Reply
Tasha 06:11 PM 04-20-2014
Yes, I'm going to have to have that uncomfortable conversation with DCM tomorrow. I dread it so much, but I just can't take many more meltdowns. I hope she understands.
Reply
Cradle2crayons 04:19 AM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
Please be honest with the parents. Flat out tell them that you are unwilling to do this for the child so they can find someone who will. She has needs that you aren't able to meet.
I disagree. I don't think not doing a home routine for each specific dck necessarily means the OP isn't able to meet the needs of the child.

It's more about what is... And what isn't.... Appropriate in a group care environment. And also, that the OP isn't able to conform her program to a routine the parents aren't willing to assist with changing.

Good luck OP speaking with the parents... I hope they understand the problem instead of minimizing it.
Reply
EntropyControlSpecialist 05:56 AM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I disagree. I don't think not doing a home routine for each specific dck necessarily means the OP isn't able to meet the needs of the child.

It's more about what is... And what isn't.... Appropriate in a group care environment. And also, that the OP isn't able to conform her program to a routine the parents aren't willing to assist with changing.

Good luck OP speaking with the parents... I hope they understand the problem instead of minimizing it.


As a parent, I'd be weirded out by a new provider kissing my child. But, I guess that's just me. Today's parenting generation with a phobia of all germs and entitlement issues truly baffles me (although, no phobia of germs here if she wants you to kiss her child..).
Reply
Kabob 07:10 AM 04-21-2014
I just have to wonder how her behavior and "special" treatment make the other kids feel. If I did that in front of the kids here, they would question it or ask for kisses too. But that's my group...

I agree that she needs to learn the difference between daycare routine and home routine. Sure it's a quick fix to kiss her now but it doesn't teach her to self soothe and it makes you uncomfortable. You are not her mommy or nanny so it's very understandable if you don't want to do it or can't do it. I mean, if you don't give in to other crutches for sleep so why should this be any different?

So yeah, do what works for the group. Maybe have her learn cold turkey or "wean" her off the kisses. Definitely talk to dcm too.
Reply
Sunshine74 09:56 AM 04-21-2014
I know you said you tried with the stuffed animals, but what if you get DCM to bring (or buy) a special toy and then every morning before she leaves, gives the toy the kisses to "save" until nap time.
Reply
hwichlaz 11:28 AM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I disagree. I don't think not doing a home routine for each specific dck necessarily means the OP isn't able to meet the needs of the child.

It's more about what is... And what isn't.... Appropriate in a group care environment. And also, that the OP isn't able to conform her program to a routine the parents aren't willing to assist with changing.

Good luck OP speaking with the parents... I hope they understand the problem instead of minimizing it.
This child NEEDS this to go to sleep easily. I'd kill for an easy nap fix for some of the kids I've had in the past, lol. She's not meeting this child's needs, and it's effecting how she meets the needs of the others. No one is getting their needed rest.
Reply
hwichlaz 11:31 AM 04-21-2014
I get that the routine is problematic for this particular provider, but I'm still trying to imagine how it would be okay on any level to tell parents to stop kissing their child good night so that she doesn't want good night kisses at daycare. This is the only forum that I've seen where so many providers wouldn't give non-mouth kisses to a little one if they wanted them. I think that, as long as there isn't a shortage in the area, that mom could easily find someone willing to take the few seconds that this little one needs to be nurtured to sleep.
Reply
SignMeUp 11:37 AM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
This is the only forum that I've seen where so many providers wouldn't give non-mouth kisses to a little one if they wanted them. I think that, as long as there isn't a shortage in the area...
Before I read the end of the sentence, I thought there was a kiss shortage
Reply
Kabob 12:17 PM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
I get that the routine is problematic for this particular provider, but I'm still trying to imagine how it would be okay on any level to tell parents to stop kissing their child good night so that she doesn't want good night kisses at daycare. This is the only forum that I've seen where so many providers wouldn't give non-mouth kisses to a little one if they wanted them. I think that, as long as there isn't a shortage in the area, that mom could easily find someone willing to take the few seconds that this little one needs to be nurtured to sleep.
I don't think the mom needs to stop kissing her child good night. I think this mom needs to help the provider adjust the child to the daycare routine if she wants to stay at daycare for nap time. I'm willing to bet that every child in my care has a completely different bed time routine at home than the one I have at nap time here and yet they all have adjusted and nap or lay quietly just fine. What if this provider had a no outside toys rule and this child screamed for a particular toy at nap time and fell asleep the second she got it? Would you tell the provider she is failing because she refused to break her policy for this one child? I would offer the same advice in that case too: teach the child the new routine without that crutch and make sure mom is on board (ie, mirroring the same nap time routine, offering alternative ideas for the provider, etc). If mom isn't on board, fine, maybe this isn't a good fit. It's not fair to expect the provider to do something that she is not comfortable with or breaks routine/policy no matter how simple that thing seems to be for someone else.
Reply
Cradle2crayons 12:27 PM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by Kabob:
I don't think the mom needs to stop kissing her child good night. I think this mom needs to help the provider adjust the child to the daycare routine if she wants to stay at daycare for nap time. I'm willing to bet that every child in my care has a completely different bed time routine at home than the one I have at nap time here and yet they all have adjusted and nap or lay quietly just fine. What if this provider had a no outside toys rule and this child screamed for a particular toy at nap time and fell asleep the second she got it? Would you tell the provider she is failing because she refused to break her policy for this one child? I would offer the same advice in that case too: teach the child the new routine without that crutch and make sure mom is on board (ie, mirroring the same nap time routine, offering alternative ideas for the provider, etc). If mom isn't on board, fine, maybe this isn't a good fit. It's not fair to expect the provider to do something that she is not comfortable with or breaks routine/policy no matter how simple that thing seems to be for someone else.
I agree. If mom wants her six year old to suck on a paci and drink from a bottle at nap time does a provider refusing to comply mean she isn't meeting the need of the child? No. Does it mean the parents can't continue it at home? No.

It just means the provider isn't willing to give the child a paci and a bottle of milk during nap time at HER house.

It's the parents job to at least assist the provider in helping the child adapt to group care.

I have a dck that co sleeps. Does that mean by me refusing to do it I'm not meeting her needs? No.
Reply
Blackcat31 12:32 PM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
This child NEEDS this to go to sleep easily. I'd kill for an easy nap fix for some of the kids I've had in the past, lol. She's not meeting this child's needs, and it's effecting how she meets the needs of the others. No one is getting their needed rest.
Why is this any different than needing to be rocked or held to sleep?

Mom/dad kiss child to help her fall asleep. Provider does NOT want to start a routine she cannot continue...

Mom/dad need to let child know that whenever she stays somewhere else the sleeping routine will be different.

If this child was in 3rd grade and going to a slumber party with my child, I would NOT be kissing her to sleep so...

Take the actual action (the kissing) out of this scenario....it is NO different that parents who perform a 101 part bedtime routine for their child.

THEY do it at HOME.

It is wring to expect your child care provider (especially group care) to replicate anything that happens at home.

I also disagree that this is a need.
It's a familiar and comforting "want". Oxygen is a need.

This child is not an infant. She is old enough o begin the process of understanding that not everyone is mom/dad and not everything is going to be the same in all environments.
Reply
misslori50 01:14 PM 04-21-2014
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Start your own naptime routine with dcg. "Kisses are for Mommy! (whatever) is for Miss. Tasha."

Rinse and repeat, she will get it.

We sing the goodnight song (same as our good morning song)

"Goodnight __________. Goodnight _________. Goodnight __________, it's time to say goodnight!"

One hug. One tuck in. One story. Lights out.


exactly
Reply
Tasha 01:17 PM 04-22-2014
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
Why is this any different than needing to be rocked or held to sleep?

Mom/dad kiss child to help her fall asleep. Provider does NOT want to start a routine she cannot continue...

Mom/dad need to let child know that whenever she stays somewhere else the sleeping routine will be different.

If this child was in 3rd grade and going to a slumber party with my child, I would NOT be kissing her to sleep so...

Take the actual action (the kissing) out of this scenario....it is NO different that parents who perform a 101 part bedtime routine for their child.

THEY do it at HOME.

It is wring to expect your child care provider (especially group care) to replicate anything that happens at home.

I also disagree that this is a need.
It's a familiar and comforting "want". Oxygen is a need.

This child is not an infant. She is old enough o begin the process of understanding that not everyone is mom/dad and not everything is going to be the same in all environments.
Thank you BC, I believe all this to be true.
I didn't talk to DCM yesterday because she failed to call me last night, which she said she would. To be clear, I have no intention on telling her to scrap her nighttime routine with DCG. That's not my place. I would like, however, for her to take seriously what problems the screaming is causing me here. I don't think I stressed enough in my previous post that it is causing problems with the other kids, specifically with a little boy (18 mos) who now wants kisses too. And it's not just that I refuse to give kisses - if it were a peck and then goodnight, well, I would do that. What she wants is a minor production, with her face dotted with kisses. I feel as though if I capitulate on that, then there goes the ballgame with all the kids because they are all paying attention.
Reply
Tasha 01:19 PM 04-22-2014
Originally Posted by Cradle2crayons:
I agree. If mom wants her six year old to suck on a paci and drink from a bottle at nap time does a provider refusing to comply mean she isn't meeting the need of the child? No. Does it mean the parents can't continue it at home? No.

It just means the provider isn't willing to give the child a paci and a bottle of milk during nap time at HER house.

It's the parents job to at least assist the provider in helping the child adapt to group care.

I have a dck that co sleeps. Does that mean by me refusing to do it I'm not meeting her needs? No.
Exactly.
Reply
KiddieCahoots 01:44 PM 04-22-2014
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
This is the only forum that I've seen where so many providers wouldn't give non-mouth kisses to a little one if they wanted them.

No offense.....but the last CPR class I took, now suggests that whenever we need to make contact with a child's mouth (not just adults) for the prupose of CPR, the Red Cross is strongly suggesting the use of those 2-way air masks, at all times.

And I agree with others....she needs to adjust to different routines in different environments, and develope coping skills.
Reply
craftymissbeth 07:03 PM 04-22-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
No offense.....but the last CPR class I took, now suggests that whenever we need to make contact with a child's mouth (not just adults) for the prupose of CPR, the Red Cross is strongly suggesting the use of those 2-way air masks, at all times.

And I agree with others....she needs to adjust to different routines in different environments, and develope coping skills.


They might be small children, but this is most definitely not a situation worth putting my own health at risk for. A child needing CPR? Of course! (and even then the mouth-to-mouth is unnecessary if you can keep a fast pace of compressions). A kiss to get them to sleep? No freaking way.
Reply
Tasha 07:33 PM 04-22-2014
Well, that was awkward. I talked to DCM, and she took the situation very personally, and frankly, I was embarrassed for both of us. I absolutely tried to convey that some routines are not conducive to group care, but I don't think she understood that dynamic at all. To her it's just not a big deal, but I tried to tell her that her screaming caused a ripple effect, and I don't want DCG or the other kids upset.
Reply
craftymissbeth 08:27 PM 04-22-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
Well, that was awkward. I talked to DCM, and she took the situation very personally, and frankly, I was embarrassed for both of us. I absolutely tried to convey that some routines are not conducive to group care, but I don't think she understood that dynamic at all. To her it's just not a big deal, but I tried to tell her that her screaming caused a ripple effect, and I don't want DCG or the other kids upset.
Aw, bummer. What happened that made it awkward? What did you tell her the plan is?
Reply
Tasha 09:10 PM 04-22-2014
It was awkward because as I was asking her if she will work with her daughter to help her understand that mommy and daddy give kisses and that their bedtime routines are private and special, all DCM was hearing was that I refuse to kiss her daughter. I tried to impress upon her that group care is so different than having a single caregiver for one-on-one interaction, and that some measure of conformity is absolutely necessary. I asked her if she wanted to bring in a special stuffed animal or doll for DCG at naptime, and leave it here for kisses. DCM didn't say much at all, and the conversation just drifted because she was not understanding me, really. And now I feel as though I bungled this whole thing from the very beginning, although I'm not sure what I would have done differently.
Reply
Play Care 05:32 AM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
It was awkward because as I was asking her if she will work with her daughter to help her understand that mommy and daddy give kisses and that their bedtime routines are private and special, all DCM was hearing was that I refuse to kiss her daughter. I tried to impress upon her that group care is so different than having a single caregiver for one-on-one interaction, and that some measure of conformity is absolutely necessary. I asked her if she wanted to bring in a special stuffed animal or doll for DCG at naptime, and leave it here for kisses. DCM didn't say much at all, and the conversation just drifted because she was not understanding me, really. And now I feel as though I bungled this whole thing from the very beginning, although I'm not sure what I would have done differently.
It just sounds as if this is not a good fit. And that's not your fault. I do think, as another poster mentioned, some parents view in home day care as more of a nanny situation. Some eventually get it, but it sounds like this mom isn't one that does.
Reply
Blackcat31 06:29 AM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
It was awkward because as I was asking her if she will work with her daughter to help her understand that mommy and daddy give kisses and that their bedtime routines are private and special, all DCM was hearing was that I refuse to kiss her daughter. I tried to impress upon her that group care is so different than having a single caregiver for one-on-one interaction, and that some measure of conformity is absolutely necessary. I asked her if she wanted to bring in a special stuffed animal or doll for DCG at naptime, and leave it here for kisses. DCM didn't say much at all, and the conversation just drifted because she was not understanding me, really. And now I feel as though I bungled this whole thing from the very beginning, although I'm not sure what I would have done differently.
Wonder how this mom would feel if you asked her to shower ALL your daycare kids with kisses every morning at drop off?

Would she be so willing to participate in a routine like that?

In mom's eyes, she thinks her DD NEEDS this routine (and she might...from MOM) but I think it is MOM that needs this routine. I think she thinks it is a need of her DD's when in reality it is nothing more than a habit/want.

Mom DOES have the power to help her DD but only if SHE does the work.
Reply
Second Home 06:57 AM 04-23-2014
The dcm bungled this thing from the bebinning by not telling you of this routine , if she had it would have been discussed before the dcg started care.
Do not feel like this is your fault . I would not be kissing her either , I think of all the accusations the parents could make down the road if things do not work out
Reply
CraftyMom 07:27 AM 04-23-2014
Honestly I think it's odd that she would be so adamant about you kissing her child, especially if you are uncomfortable with it. Kisses are an act of love. Yes, a daycare provider is a loving person, but to shower a child that she JUST MET with kisses every day is a bit much to ask for. You don't yet love this child. Especially after expressing your being uncomfortable and how it is upsetting the daycare vibe. Yes, we give love and comfort and kiss boo-boos and kiss heads or cheeks occasionally, but this is going beyond your comfort zone and it is not ok for mom to expect this from you. I think she just assumes that you are a daycare provider, you automatically love all children in your care and you should WANT to do this, it's your job. But that's not how it works.

In my daycare I guarantee all the other kids would be wanting the same and crying for kisses
Reply
daycare 07:51 AM 04-23-2014
I have been following this and I just find it so weird of this parent. I guess for me, kissing is a very emotional and intimate action. NOT something that I do to just anyone.

I don't allow kissing. It spreads germs. I don't let the kids kiss each other and I don't kiss the kids. I do have kids that like to kiss me on the check good-bye, but to be honest that even grosses me out, so I try to avoid it as much as I can.

I agree with what the others are saying. You have to develop your own nap time routine that works for the whole group. There is no way that you could manage 4-10 individual bedtime routines each and every nap time.

Bottom line, mom needs to help her child adapt to your program. I would not even mention the kissing anymore.

DCM here is our naptime routine, please help sally to learn and understand it. Then just drop it.

It sounds like this mom just wants her child to be "SPECIAL" and treated with "SPECIAL". If that is what mom wants, then tell mom that you will call her right after DCG is lay down so that DCM can conduct the routine. Due to the inconvenience of her interrupting your program, you will have to charge a fee of $50.00 a day and the parent needs to be consistent with the routine such it is so NEEDED....


I can't stand when parents THINK that their child NEEDS everything under the sun from them and everyone!!!!
Reply
KiddieCahoots 08:18 AM 04-23-2014
You have not bungled anything, or done anything wrong!
This parent is expecting performances from you that are not part of a group reality.
She is the one who is in denial with her expectations of group child care!
She'll get over it and work with you....for her daughter's sake, or leave thinking it will be greener on the other side of the hill.
If you cave in now, what will be the next request?
Steadfast! You are doing a great job!
Reply
NightOwl 05:02 PM 04-23-2014
How did it go today?
Reply
Tasha 09:09 PM 04-23-2014
It did not go well. DCG was screaming yet again today. I feel awful and very inadequate, and I haven't felt that way in a long time. I've read threads on here where providers will spend literally months listening to children scream at naptime, and I don't know how they have such patience. Today was day 8 and it's driving me nuts because nothing I am doing is working. I talked to DCM again at pickup today briefly and I got insight into what she thinks of my role. She said her last ''babysitter'' (who closed her business) was like a second mom to DCG and there were never any issues. So I believe it's not that DCM especially wants me to give her daughter kisses, my impression is that she just wants me to do whatever it takes to meet her daughter wants/needs. She said she did talk to dcg last night but I don't know - the behavior was the same. Does anybody have anymore ideas? Is there another way I can handle this? I feel like the mom is a brick wall, and now it's turning into a battle of wills, which is not good.
Reply
momof333 09:43 PM 04-23-2014
I would not use kisses. But agree with talking to the dcg and forming a new routine with her. That would be the best thing for all parties involved. You are comfortable and have no worries about could be said, the girl builds a bond with you that is different then moms, and the mom still has her special evening ritual.

momof333
thetinyelephant.com
Reply
Tasha 10:32 PM 04-23-2014
Originally Posted by KiddieCahoots:
You have not bungled anything, or done anything wrong!
This parent is expecting performances from you that are not part of a group reality.
She is the one who is in denial with her expectations of group child care!
She'll get over it and work with you....for her daughter's sake, or leave thinking it will be greener on the other side of the hill.
If you cave in now, what will be the next request?
Steadfast! You are doing a great job!
Thank you so much, KC. I don't get any vibe that she is thinking of pulling her child, which I find odd because I've been such a harpy about the crying! I mean, I'm getting on my own nerves with this... A previous poster suggested that it would be easy peasy to find another provider who would have no problem at all showering kisses on dcg, but I'm not so sure of that. I really wonder... I might be finding out soon enough, though.
Reply
CraftyMom 06:50 AM 04-24-2014
Do you have a trial period? If you do then use it

If dcg hasn't adjusted to your group setting during your allotted trial period then it may not be a good fit.

You may decide to give one more week beyond the trial period, but let mom know that by xxxxx date if dcg is still not adjusting to YOUR routine (the same routine you have with everyone else, not one created for her) then the arrangement will not work and care will end

In 8 days she hasn't gotten any better?
Reply
CraftyMom 06:53 AM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by momof333:
I would not use kisses. But agree with talking to the dcg and forming a new routine with her. That would be the best thing for all parties involved. You are comfortable and have no worries about could be said, the girl builds a bond with you that is different then moms, and the mom still has her special evening ritual.

momof333
thetinyelephant.com
If this works and you are willing, but I can't see having a different routine for different kids, it isn't solving the problem, but creating another issue. I don't think OP's issue was with the actual kissing, but the disruption in the naptime routine she currently has with everyone else (but I may be wrong)
Reply
Unregistered 08:35 AM 04-24-2014
It didn't need to be awkward but she made it that way.

I think that the approach that I would have taken would have been to express he importance of the mom keeping that special routine for her and her child to share. I think it's important that parents maintain those special moments with their kids. Providers are more than capable of creating new routines with kids and helping newly enrolled kids adjust.

I'm a provider and I'm a mother. I'm not comfortable with taking on the role of being a second mom to the kids that I care for nor am I comfortable with dc parents expecting that from me.
Reply
KiddieCahoots 10:32 AM 04-24-2014
Your welcome Tasha
I had a dcm who acted the same way. I bent over backwards to try and make it right, to no avail. dcp's were in such denial, they claimed dcb didn't need EI services, after having EI in their home and here in the child care for 8 months.
Some parents live in denial and will not see anything we present to them. Rather than see that we are trying to help, will look at us as the "bad guy" for bringing it to light, or not giving "special treatment".
I was going to mention giving dcm something google'd on "sleep association", but not sure if that would help.
CraftymMom made the suggestion of using your trial period & termination, and might be the only way to go, if dcm & dcb don't respond.
Speaking from a similar and recent experience, feel it would be much better than getting down on yourself, and burnt out...kwim?
Reply
Unregistered 11:23 AM 04-24-2014
Am I correct that she is only 2 years old?

At 2 I wouldn't honestly expect her to cognitively understand her mother telling her that she can't have kisses from a provider at naptime.
Reply
Tasha 03:13 PM 04-24-2014
Yes, she is 2 years old, very bright, potty trained, and I do believe she understands the difference between Mommy's kisses at home and mine at daycare. Friday is the last day of the 2-week trial period, and I am under the gun trying to figure out what to do. Last night I thought I would initiate my own routine with her that included hugs... but then I realized I'd be right back where I started from because all eyes are on her at naptime because she is so loud and demanding, and so that means I'd have to establish routines with all the little ones. I asked DCM today how well DCG is going to sleep at night, and she said with a big smile, ''Like a champ.'' I bet, since she's getting barely any sleep here.
Reply
EntropyControlSpecialist 03:23 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
Yes, she is 2 years old, very bright, potty trained, and I do believe she understands the difference between Mommy's kisses at home and mine at daycare. Friday is the last day of the 2-week trial period, and I am under the gun trying to figure out what to do. Last night I thought I would initiate my own routine with her that included hugs... but then I realized I'd be right back where I started from because all eyes are on her at naptime because she is so loud and demanding, and so that means I'd have to establish routines with all the little ones. I asked DCM today how well DCG is going to sleep at night, and she said with a big smile, ''Like a champ.'' I bet, since she's getting barely any sleep here.
I am one who NEEDS the income (it's our only income) but even I would let them go. I value my break each day way too much. Or, I would extend the trial 2 more weeks and see if you can't get her on board.
Reply
cheerfuldom 10:36 PM 04-24-2014
If you dont have the space to transition in a nap time screamer without disturbing the other kids, then I would term.
Reply
daycare 10:54 PM 04-24-2014
Originally Posted by cheerfuldom:
If you dont have the space to transition in a nap time screamer without disturbing the other kids, then I would term.
ditto on this. If this were me, I would simply move the DCG to an area that she can cry it out and not disturb anyone else. I would not give it any attention and go on my marry way. If after the trial period the child did not show MAJOR signs of progress with the napping, I would term.

LIke others said, I value my nap time too much. I work 14 hour days and those 2 hours are MINE.

I hope that you are able to find a solution. I know you just had to term that other family.
Reply
Unregistered 01:07 AM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by TwinKristi:
Awww, maybe I'm just a newbie but I'd give her kisses if that's all she needs. No you can't do 12 different routines for all 12 kids but this is just 1. Everyone else goes to sleep well and this is her first week. She's probably never gone to sleep without these kisses. I have a 2yo myself so I guess I just feel that mama pain still. Maybe try giving her kisses and see if it works?
This is so me! I wouldn't have a problem the kisses, but I TOTALLY understand why you don't want to. I loved the kiss you finger and tap her forehead, etc. too bad that didn't work.

Hope things improve.
Reply
Tasha 01:11 AM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by daycare:
ditto on this. If this were me, I would simply move the DCG to an area that she can cry it out and not disturb anyone else. I would not give it any attention and go on my marry way. If after the trial period the child did not show MAJOR signs of progress with the napping, I would term.

LIke others said, I value my nap time too much. I work 14 hour days and those 2 hours are MINE.

I hope that you are able to find a solution. I know you just had to term that other family.
I will move her from the get-go, and see how that goes. I've decided to try another week with her. I'll let DCM know this afternoon; she might want to go ahead and pull her, I'm not sure. And you're right, Daycare, I did have to term the other family (I heard from them - I updated on that ''bitter'' thread yesterday if you haven't seen it) and that's a big reason why I'd like to give this more time and see if I can't find a reasonable solution for this child, so she is happy and peaceful at naptime. I hate failing and yet this month that is all I've done! These families have given me such a knot in my stomach.
Reply
nannyde 04:07 AM 04-25-2014
I wouldn't do this period. I would change her kisses word to "kisses night night". I would put her to bed for nap and say "kisses night night". When she screamed "kisses" I would smile and say "kisses night night".

I don't mind kissing the kids. I do that all the time. I won't be forced to add a routine to nap time. I want to decide how to put the kids down for a nap. I don't want a two year old to do that.

It's a term of engagement. She's using the word "kisses" but she wants you to DO her. She's two. She can lay down on a mat and go to sleep. She doesn't need someone to get involved with it.

I would start her nap about an hour earlier than everyone else so she can do a "kisses" routine. By an hour into it she should be worn down. I would just expect she is going to be hoarse for a few weeks.

I wouldn't discuss this anymore with the parents. Just give her a good long time to do her "kisses" crying before nap. If an hour doesn't work bump it up by fifteen minutes until you find the magical time she surrenders. If she is falling asleep before nap starts go in and make some noise so she awakens and restarts the kisses crying. Try to then move toward the time she has for her cry time to be shorter and shorter until it disappears.

It's okay for her to protest. She just needs time when the kids are awake to burn that off before nap.

I had one two year old who mom decided to potty train. She would scream "I poopy" so her mom would get her out of bed and put her on the pot. She did that here for weeks and weeks. I just changed the word to "I poopy night night" and when I put her to bed I said "I poppy night night" every time. When she cried "I poopy" I gave her one of these and said "I poopy night night with a cheery tone and then close the door.

She learned "I poopy" meant nothing here. It moved mountains at home but it was just a word here. The "kisses" means something at home. It means NOTHING at your house.
Reply
Maria2013 05:10 AM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
Yes, she is 2 years old, very bright, potty trained, and I do believe she understands the difference between Mommy's kisses at home and mine at daycare. Friday is the last day of the 2-week trial period, and I am under the gun trying to figure out what to do....
what would concern me the most isn't the girl's behavior, you lay down limits and stick to them and eventually she'd get it...but no, what I would be concerned about, is the mother's behavior...she is comparing you to the "other" provider and she is doing so in a negative way, major red flag for me and NO I would NOT even waste my time trying because for sure there would be other issues in the future

This is not worth the stress you are going through:
Reply
cheerfuldom 05:38 AM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I wouldn't do this period. I would change her kisses word to "kisses night night". I would put her to bed for nap and say "kisses night night". When she screamed "kisses" I would smile and say "kisses night night".

I don't mind kissing the kids. I do that all the time. I won't be forced to add a routine to nap time. I want to decide how to put the kids down for a nap. I don't want a two year old to do that.

It's a term of engagement. She's using the word "kisses" but she wants you to DO her. She's two. She can lay down on a mat and go to sleep. She doesn't need someone to get involved with it.

I would start her nap about an hour earlier than everyone else so she can do a "kisses" routine. By an hour into it she should be worn down. I would just expect she is going to be hoarse for a few weeks.

I wouldn't discuss this anymore with the parents. Just give her a good long time to do her "kisses" crying before nap. If an hour doesn't work bump it up by fifteen minutes until you find the magical time she surrenders. If she is falling asleep before nap starts go in and make some noise so she awakens and restarts the kisses crying. Try to then move toward the time she has for her cry time to be shorter and shorter until it disappears.

It's okay for her to protest. She just needs time when the kids are awake to burn that off before nap.

I had one two year old who mom decided to potty train. She would scream "I poopy" so her mom would get her out of bed and put her on the pot. She did that here for weeks and weeks. I just changed the word to "I poopy night night" and when I put her to bed I said "I poppy night night" every time. When she cried "I poopy" I gave her one of these and said "I poopy night night with a cheery tone and then close the door.

She learned "I poopy" meant nothing here. It moved mountains at home but it was just a word here. The "kisses" means something at home. It means NOTHING at your house.
Moving her naptime up to give her the chance to get the full blown screaming out of her system is a great idea! I do that as well and totally forgot to mention it. By the time you put the other kids down, she wont have the energy to be quite so robust and keep the others up. She is 2 and smart enough to give up eventually, probably take a couple weeks.
Reply
LadyPearl 09:02 AM 04-25-2014
I wouldn't accommodate the kissing routine either. That would make me uncomfortable and I would never ask a provider to do that with my child. In my opinion, my kisses are reserved for my children. I recently had a sibling set (ages 2 & 4) that I had to be a bit stern with at first because of kissing and awkward in my face stuff. The 2 yr old would try to kiss me on the mouth and I would pull away. The 4 yr old would always want to be inches from my face and kiss me and I would also pull away. I think that should be between the kids and their parents and grandparents not a childcare provider. These were kids that would see somebody for the first and want to be cuddled and hugged by the new person. They didn't have any personal boundaries and that would make me nervous as a parent. (There was no "stranger danger," if you will.) Just my opinion!
Reply
Tasha 01:08 PM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by nannyde:

I would start her nap about an hour earlier than everyone else so she can do a "kisses" routine. By an hour into it she should be worn down. I would just expect she is going to be hoarse for a few weeks.

I wouldn't discuss this anymore with the parents. Just give her a good long time to do her "kisses" crying before nap. If an hour doesn't work bump it up by fifteen minutes until you find the magical time she surrenders. If she is falling asleep before nap starts go in and make some noise so she awakens and restarts the kisses crying. Try to then move toward the time she has for her cry time to be shorter and shorter until it disappears.

It's okay for her to protest. She just needs time when the kids are awake to burn that off before nap.

.
NannyDe, I will try this. It never occurred to me. Thanks so much. Now all I have left to do is to tell the mom she has one more week to stop screaming. I think you're right that it is doing no good trying to brainstorm with DCM a solution. She's not interested.
Reply
Starburst 02:01 PM 04-25-2014
I guess it depends on how comfortable you are with it. The lady I used to work for would sometimes give the kids a hug and a kiss before they went home, and tell the children that she loved them. Also many of the parents would tell have their kids hug their friends and teachers good bye at pick up. It used to freak me out because I have also never been much of a hugger and was never really big on saying "I love you" and it was all out of my comfort zone. Anyway, eventually I realized that some people (especially children) need physical contact (such as a hug or a kiss on the cheek) to feel validated and some people are just more comfortable with it than others.

If you don't feel comfortable doing this tell mom that you would rather teach DCG to fall asleep without this ritual, at least while at daycare. If you just don't feel comfortable with actually kissing a daycare child (maybe liability issues or not wanting to make other kids feel left out) but don't mind having a nap ritual maybe you can try using a stuffed animal/lovey (or a toy of her choosing) and doing the same ritual using the lovey or even using a picture of her parents instead. Or you can get a spray bottle with water and call it "kiss spray" (you can say that each drop of water is a kiss; 100s of kisses per spray), "sleep spray", "dream spray" or "sweet dream spray" (using the 'monster spray' idea); you put it on a mist setting and only spray it once for her during nap time, or else she will expect more each time.
Reply
Josiegirl 03:30 PM 04-25-2014
I attended a workshop last night that talked about letting children handle developmentally appropriate adversities. To me, this would be one for the little girl to figure out how to handle. Too many parents are quick to jump in and save their child or make a big thing out of something small. They are essentially stunting their child's ability to learn how to handle situations.
IF you can see yourself keeping this child and hoping it works out, I'd just keep trying to adjust her to your routine. I wouldn't talk a lot about it with mom anymore and when she asks, I'd just say you're still working on it. Maybe give her a month or so and you'll see how well she's adjusted by then.
If dcm wants someone to care for her dd that does everything exactly like she does, maybe she ought to stay home herself?
JMO
Reply
Tasha 05:01 PM 04-25-2014
Well.... All that angst and hand-wringing and desperately searching for a solution was for nothing. DCM termed me this afternoon! Her old provider who closed up shop has agreed to take the little girl back.
Reply
EntropyControlSpecialist 05:16 PM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
Well.... All that angst and hand-wringing and desperately searching for a solution was for nothing. DCM termed me this afternoon! Her old provider who closed up shop has agreed to take the little girl back.
Good. She will get the nanny she needs.
Reply
SignMeUp 05:58 PM 04-25-2014
Aw. We can all give you big kisses to make it better
But seriously, I hope you don't feel bad about it. You worked hard to find a solution that works in your child care.
Who was the brilliant member who said we should redefine failure? Go with that
Reply
Shell 06:04 PM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by Tasha:
Well.... All that angst and hand-wringing and desperately searching for a solution was for nothing. DCM termed me this afternoon! Her old provider who closed up shop has agreed to take the little girl back.
but in a good way. This situation was just ridiculous! This mom was too much to handle imo. I loved Nannyde's suggestions though- she was spot on with how to deal with it. Glad you are done with this family- mom's in for a rude awakening if she thinks everyone is going to cater to her and her child in life!
Reply
CraftyMom 06:06 PM 04-25-2014
It's for the best, at least you didn't have to term her. I never like being the one to term. I'd rather have it be the parent's decision so it isn't me not trying to work it out in the eyes of licensing

Don't be surprised if she comes back down the road after she passes this phase

Kidding! I'm still getting a kick out of your other one!
Reply
Tasha 06:26 PM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by CraftyMom:
It's for the best, at least you didn't have to term her. I never like being the one to term. I'd rather have it be the parent's decision so it isn't me not trying to work it out in the eyes of licensing

Don't be surprised if she comes back down the road after she passes this phase

Kidding! I'm still getting a kick out of your other one!
I don't like terming, either, and I'm so glad she opened her mouth first, even though I'm sure my face turned red from embarrassment. She was pretty patronizing, even though she was absolutely correct - I wasn't the right provider for her DD. A huge part of me is relieved she's gone and I and the other kids won't hear anymore screeching, but I really am sorry I wasn't able to turn it around and conquer that problem. So now it's back to the drawing board: First I had psycho/ingrate mom and her kids (who I'm about to reply to) and then this little girl, who did seem perfect on paper. I have a wait list so let's see if I can continue my string of winners...
Reply
Tasha 06:28 PM 04-25-2014
Originally Posted by SignMeUp:
Aw. We can all give you big kisses to make it better
But seriously, I hope you don't feel bad about it. You worked hard to find a solution that works in your child care.
Who was the brilliant member who said we should redefine failure? Go with that

To all of you!
Reply
Tags:naptime - requirements, naptime routine
Reply Up