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Logged out for privacy 08:04 PM 08-20-2017
I searched but did not find anything totally relevant to my situation.

I have an interview with a potential client who's child has allergies to 2 common foods that are frequently served here. This child has an epi pen but it is unclear if the child reacts when just ingesting allergens or will react when near them as well.

Because these foods are commonly served here I do not feel I can provide a safe environment for this child and do not want to enroll them.

How do I let mom know I can not enroll her child in an ADA compliant way?

FWIW: I am also interviewing a second family for this same position later this week.

FWIW.2: I have had children with allergies enrolled before. But never one with an epi pen (it just hasn't come up.) In the past I have parents provide all food along with utensils to prevent cross contamination.
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flying_babyb 08:36 PM 08-20-2017
as long as its not a near them reaction, I would just have the parents send food. we have a Wheat allergic child who brings their own food.
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knoxmomof2 09:40 PM 08-20-2017
When I looked into becoming licensed (I'm license exempt with less than 5 children), another person asked a similar question about peanut allergies. He said, "I just don't want the risk and peanuts or peanut butter would probably be a commonly used food item at our facility. What can I say that won't be considered discrimination?"

The instructor, whose own daughter had a peanut allergy, was quite offended at the question, but answered nonetheless. She said that he could indicate, when discussing the menu to a potential client, that peanut products were regularly served and that it was not a peanut free environment. It would then be up to the parent to decide that this particular environment would not be ideal for their child. I can't guarantee your "ADA safety" by going this route, it's just an answer I heard.

Instead of saying "I don't or won't do this", you're saying "here's what I do".
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lblanke 10:37 PM 08-20-2017
Per ADA, you cannot chose not to enroll solely because of the allergy. Do you accept any federal funding (such as the food program)? If so and this is your basis for not enrolling, that finding could be in jeopardy.that being said, if you truly are incapable of providing a safe environment for the child, then you are not a good fit. All children deserve a safe environment of care.
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nannyde 05:52 AM 08-21-2017
I would do a very short interview and tell her you are interviewing multiple families over the next few weeks. Let her know you will be making a decision in three to four weeks. If she hasn't heard from you within a month then she will know another family was chosen.

I wouldn't discuss the allergies too much. Just do your normal interviewing. If she brings it up, listen to her carefully and then move on to the next subject.

You are lucky she told you in advance. Once the allergy parents find out they can't even get interviews they wait until they have enrolled, paid for the slot, and the kid is ready to start to pop it on the provider. That's way more difficult to navigate.
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Unregistered 06:03 AM 08-21-2017
License exempt and not on the food program. I have had children with allergies enrolled before and have a protocol for keeping them safe. This child's allergies were to common foods that were served weekly (not your common peanuts) and kept in the house at all times. I do agree, all children are deserving of a safe place.

I explained the food was in the childcare home and asked mom to elaborate on the severity of the child's allergies. She sad ingestion was a problem but did not know if contact was. She "recalls" the doctor saying skin contact was an issue. I found this interesting. I am NOT doubting the child has allergies, but if they were so bad to the point of an epi pen, wouldn't you know exactly what happened in the event of ingestion and contact? Or is that not how allergies go?
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Unregistered 06:08 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I would do a very short interview and tell her you are interviewing multiple families over the next few weeks. Let her know you will be making a decision in three to four weeks. If she hasn't heard from you within a month then she will know another family was chosen.

I wouldn't discuss the allergies too much. Just do your normal interviewing. If she brings it up, listen to her carefully and then move on to the next subject.

You are lucky she told you in advance. Once the allergy parents find out they can't even get interviews they wait until they have enrolled, paid for the slot, and the kid is ready to start to pop it on the provider. That's way more difficult to navigate.
One of my pre interview questions asked is if their child has any allergies or health concerns. I ask this prior to a parent stepping food in my door. Questions are always asked via email so there is a paper trail. My handbook also states that false information given written or verbally is grounds for immediate termination. In the event that a future parent would try something like this, is that enough to protect me?
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284878 08:00 AM 08-21-2017
One provider I know post a sign stating that her home is not allergy free. She makes sure that families see the sign during tours.
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LysesKids 08:15 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
License exempt and not on the food program. I have had children with allergies enrolled before and have a protocol for keeping them safe. This child's allergies were to common foods that were served weekly (not your common peanuts) and kept in the house at all times. I do agree, all children are deserving of a safe place.

I explained the food was in the childcare home and asked mom to elaborate on the severity of the child's allergies. She sad ingestion was a problem but did not know if contact was. She "recalls" the doctor saying skin contact was an issue. I found this interesting. I am NOT doubting the child has allergies, but if they were so bad to the point of an epi pen, wouldn't you know exactly what happened in the event of ingestion and contact? Or is that not how allergies go?
In cases of allergies I require a copy of the tests & what allergens were found; also what protocol to take for said allergies. An Allergy special won't test babes usually before age 2 unless there are severe issues. If an Epi pen is to be used, I would want that in writing from the DR to make sure the Epi wasn't for something (or somebody) else

I have a few very severe ingestion allergies as did one of my prior dck; I had it in writing what the allergies were & how to avoid issues, now I have her baby brother in care (she aged out).
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nannyde 09:15 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
One of my pre interview questions .

ed is if their child has any allergies concerns. I ask this prior to a parent stepping food in my door. Questions are always asked via email so there is a paper trail. My handbook also states that false information given written or verbally is grounds for immediate termination. In the event that a future parent would try something like this, is that enough to protect me?
She's not required to disclose. Anything you have in your policies that state she can be termed for not divulging or omitting or answering your questions without divulging means nothing to the ADA. A parent can enroll a child with AIDS and not divulge.

Your way may deter some but the ones who have been to the rodeo many times know they don't have to tell and once they get in you must accommodate.
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Blackcat31 09:20 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
She's not required to disclose. Anything you have in your policies that state she can be termed for not divulging or omitting or answering your questions without divulging means nothing to the ADA. A parent can enroll a child with AIDS and not divulge.

Your way may deter some but the ones who have been to the rodeo many times know they don't have to tell and once they get in you must accommodate.
This has been my belief/knowledge as well.

To counteract that, I instead make sure that ALL potential clients know and understand that I have a medical requirement/situation ALREADY WITHIN MY PROGRAM that may present an issue of conflict with others that also have medical requirements/situations that require special accommodations or actions.

For example I don't ask potential parents if their child has a peanut allergy but instead make sure ALL potential clients understand that we are NOT a peanut free environment due to someone else's medical situation.

So far, it's worked out just fine....
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hwichlaz 09:26 AM 08-21-2017
While I can exclude the foods a child is allergic to, being ADA compliant when you're a sole proprietor with no employees isn't as hard as you may believe. You an simply say, that since you work by yourself that you are concerned that you can't supply adequate supervision at meal time to keep the child safe. I'd also be concerned about children coming in with particles of that food on their clothing from home. So even if I exclude, peanuts (an example) I can't be sure kids didn't have it for breakfast at home and don't have it on their clothing/breath/face/hands. I'd outline exactly what measures I can take, working by myself. If the parent seems okay with that...and I was also comfortable, I'd put them in writing and have both parents sign it.
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Second Home 09:39 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
In cases of allergies I require a copy of the tests & what allergens were found; also what protocol to take for said allergies. An Allergy special won't test babes usually before age 2 unless there are severe issues. If an Epi pen is to be used, I would want that in writing from the DR to make sure the Epi wasn't for something (or somebody) else

I have a few very severe ingestion allergies as did one of my prior dck; I had it in writing what the allergies were & how to avoid issues, now I have her baby brother in care (she aged out).
Here in MD if a child has allergies we must have a action plan filled out by the allergist/ Dr with all information , reaction symptoms and medical instructions . It must be on the state form , no exceptions . If a parent refuses to have the form filled out and given to the provider we may terminate care due to the fact that they refuse to fill out state required forms . Any parent that says their child has allergies must have the form filled out and kept in their child's file . It also must be done every year .
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Blackcat31 09:40 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
While I can exclude the foods a child is allergic to, being ADA compliant when you're a sole proprietor with no employees isn't as hard as you may believe. You an simply say, that since you work by yourself that you are concerned that you can't supply adequate supervision at meal time to keep the child safe. I'd also be concerned about children coming in with particles of that food on their clothing from home. So even if I exclude, peanuts (an example) I can't be sure kids didn't have it for breakfast at home and don't have it on their clothing/breath/face/hands. I'd outline exactly what measures I can take, working by myself. If the parent seems okay with that...and I was also comfortable, I'd put them in writing and have both parents sign it.
While this makes complete sense to me... let's say you do all that and a parent with a child that has a peanut allergy is enrolled in your program.

Fast forward a few months and a different long time enrolled child comes in with peanut butter on their clothing/hands etc... and the child with the allergy is exposed and has a reaction.

Even IF the parent of the child with the allergy signed off saying they knew that could potentially happen they could still push their child's protected right to a peanut free environment and ultimately cause you to have to term the long time enrolled child....

I understand and support ADA protected situations but sometimes some situations just go to far and the person with the protected ADA situation almost always gets priority. kwim? Sometimes that is difficult for providers working solo but the ADA doesn't really care.

It's easier to not enroll (which isn't always legal or right) than it is to deal with after the fact or use waivers...which I don't think really provide you with any legal protection anyways. *sigh*
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hwichlaz 09:45 AM 08-21-2017
This can also happen at public school. Public schools cannot keep kids from eating peanut butter at home. They can have everyone wash their hands and face as they enter...which I could also do. Your public school classmates aren't unenrolled for having peanut butter on their clothing.

I can totally understand not enrolling. I've had cases where an interviewing family's allergy conflicted with the allergy of a child already enrolled and I've just explained that to them and they were disappointed but fine.
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Unregistered 10:07 AM 08-21-2017
What about a child with celiac disease? My cousin recently found her daughter has it and she goes to a public school, what accommodations do they have to let her have?
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hwichlaz 10:10 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
What about a child with celiac disease? My cousin recently found her daughter has it and she goes to a public school, what accommodations do they have to let her have?
They have to provide an appropriate school lunch for her.

Celiac's kids have to ingest their allergen to be effected.
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LysesKids 10:19 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
They have to provide an appropriate school lunch for her.

Celiac's kids have to ingest their allergen to be effected.
Exactly... that child can bring a packed lunch if mom & dad aren't happy with the school lunch choice; I explain to parents because of my Gluten issues & the fact I have a Celiac child that I care for, that nut based flours are often used for cooking & I cannot guarantee that my home can be nut free; Peanut free yes, nut free nope. And I do have a Peanut allergic child here, but it's an ingestion issue, not contact or in the air.
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hwichlaz 10:24 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
Exactly... that child can bring a packed lunch if mom & dad aren't happy with the school lunch choice; I explain to parents because of my Gluten issues & the fact I have a Celiac child that I care for, that nut based flours are often used for cooking & I cannot guarantee that my home can be nut free; Peanut free yes, nut free nope. And I do have a Peanut allergic child here, but it's an ingestion issue, not contact or in the air.
Schools don't use anything expensive. Their gulten free items are made with rice flour and/or cornstarch.
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LysesKids 10:45 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
Schools don't use anything expensive. Their gulten free items are made with rice flour and/or cornstarch.
My cooked/baked items require more than just rice flour otherwise biscuits and other goods just won't rise properly, plus I love my nutty stuff lol even if it is peanut free
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hwichlaz 10:55 AM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by LysesKids:
My cooked/baked items require more than just rice flour otherwise biscuits and other goods just won't rise properly, plus I love my nutty stuff lol even if it is peanut free
I just use pamela's mix. It's GF, DF, and no nuts, but they do process tree nuts in their facility so not allergen safe. Bob's Red Mill has some great GF,DF, NF mixes. It's all just different grain flours, mostly sprouted, and sorghum and starches.
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Unregistered 01:49 PM 08-21-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
She's not required to disclose. Anything you have in your policies that state she can be termed for not divulging or omitting or answering your questions without divulging means nothing to the ADA. A parent can enroll a child with AIDS and not divulge.

Your way may deter some but the ones who have been to the rodeo many times know they don't have to tell and once they get in you must accommodate.
Wow. That is incredibly disappointing.

For future reference what in the world is a provider supposed to do if a parents enrolls first and then says after that their child has serious allergies.
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Meeko 05:37 PM 08-21-2017
I personally detest peanut butter, but the rest of my family are addicted to it. Peanut butter, peanuts in cans, peanut butter candy, peanut butter cookies, peanut butter cereal etc etc etc.

I make sure that incoming families know I am not peanut free and never will be. This is MY home and MY family comes first. I will never tell my family they can't have their favorite thing. Parents can take it or leave it. There are plenty of daycares willing to work with allergies. I am not one of them.
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Mom2Two 02:12 PM 08-23-2017
Originally Posted by nannyde:
I would do a very short interview and tell her you are interviewing multiple families over the next few weeks. Let her know you will be making a decision in three to four weeks. If she hasn't heard from you within a month then she will know another family was chosen.

I wouldn't discuss the allergies too much. Just do your normal interviewing. If she brings it up, listen to her carefully and then move on to the next subject.

You are lucky she told you in advance. Once the allergy parents find out they can't even get interviews they wait until they have enrolled, paid for the slot, and the kid is ready to start to pop it on the provider. That's way more difficult to navigate.
I'm not sure what parent with an anaphylactic child would want them in attendance without the provider knowing even for a short time. Or do you mean that they'd interview, get accepted, then inform the provider before the first day of attendance?
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Mom2Two 02:16 PM 08-23-2017
So really, it's not a great idea for any daycare to proclaim that they are nut free. Increasingly, the evidence is that the food allergy epidemic is related to kids who are not exposed to the food in infancy, who have excema, then who get exposed a bit older.

I follow the research but not super hard, but it seems like that's where the research is at right now.

Israel has one of the highest rates of peanut consumption plus very little peanut allergy. They routinely give infants peanut puffs. See "bamba" for sale on Amazon.

For us...dd is anaphylactic to tree nuts, coconut, and seeds like sunflower and seseme. I wouldn't take a kid with peanut allergy, because it's the only nut dd can eat!
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