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lovemykidstoo 06:49 AM 05-24-2017
I know that some totally agree with this but what is going on with the parents that have the kiddos in bed with them every night? I have yet another parent that I questioned why junior does not like his bed here and she finally told me what I already knew and that he sleeps with them. He's a year old. I have 2 parents that do that out of 8. Does noone know about SIDS? I don't recall any of my friends siblings sleeping with their parents when I was little. Do you guys agree with it/disagree with it? What are your thoughts? I am thinking, first of all it's dangerous. My one dcg is almost 2 and wonder if they're sleeping and she wanders around the house what could happen. Secondly, I don't know how any of them could get proper sleep.
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daycarediva 06:53 AM 05-24-2017
I put my kids as infants in a side sleeper until they were getting on all fours (but not IN our bed, not at all safe).

And only bc I'm lazy and breastfed. It was easier. They transitioned to a crib in our room after that, and then after a year or so, to their own room.
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sharlan 07:04 AM 05-24-2017
As a new, young mother, I was told by my pediatrician in the hospital to never bring the baby into our bed, even for nursing. He also said to put her in her own room.

I followed his advice. Both of my babies were fantastic sleepers.
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Blackcat31 07:11 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I know that some totally agree with this but what is going on with the parents that have the kiddos in bed with them every night? I have yet another parent that I questioned why junior does not like his bed here and she finally told me what I already knew and that he sleeps with them. He's a year old. I have 2 parents that do that out of 8. Does noone know about SIDS? I don't recall any of my friends siblings sleeping with their parents when I was little. Do you guys agree with it/disagree with it? What are your thoughts? I am thinking, first of all it's dangerous. My one dcg is almost 2 and wonder if they're sleeping and she wanders around the house what could happen. Secondly, I don't know how any of them could get proper sleep.
I think it ALL stems from not wanting child to cry/be unhappy.

Over worked parents, stressed, over scheduled, busy lives leaves little time for quality anything.

Most just want sleep.

Co-sleeping is just one way to eliminate common sleep issues. Or rather it's the easiest way to get some sleep and not have your kid cry.

Co-sleep = easy.

SUIDS? That only happens to other people.


*Disclaimer* my comment are in general. I know some co-sleepers have completely different goals and reasons for doing it.
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mommyneedsadayoff 07:24 AM 05-24-2017
I have had a few co sleepers and it is usually only a problem right when they start here. They all started at under 4 months, but I told parents right away..."I do not sleep with babies, hold babies while they sleep, or put them in swings to sleep, so they will cry as they adjust to the new environment. I am here for them as support the whole time, but they will cry." None of them really cared, as long as the kid got on a good schedule, which they always did by about the 2-3 week mark. Every single one of these parents came in at some point in that first year and said, "little one is sleeping int heir own bed! They just wanted to and slept all night! They are so awesome!" Yep, they did it all on their own because at least one person in their life allowed them the freedom to sleep

Anyhoo, I really don't care what they do at home, but I have never understood how co sleeping was easier. I cannot sleep with a kid in my bed. I would be a zombie and probably go sleep in their crib if they took my bed over. It was never an option for my kids, because it just did not work for me or my husband. My bed is MY sanctuary and I wanted their beds to be THEIR sanctuary. When my daughter was 3, she went through this phase where she thought bugs were in her bed and she was terrified to sleep in her room. I laid a mat by my bed and she slept on the floor for a few weeks until it passed. That is the only sleep issue we have really had, but again, no kids in my bed. Nope!
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Sahmmie 07:52 AM 05-24-2017
Co-sleeping is part of the "attachment parenting" movement. Baby should never cry. Baby should be coddled every waking (and sleeping) moment. In my opinion, this teaches babies that they cannot possibly cope without mommy which is not in baby's best interest at all. Most "attached/co-sleeping" babies I've known are chronically miserable unless they are being held, rocked, nursed, etc.

There's a difference between being attentive and being attached 24/7 to your child. I was an attentive mother but none of my babies slept with me and I did not wear them in a sling all day. They were happy babies who could entertain themselves while I folded a load of laundry or left the room for a few minutes and they all slept in their own beds from birth
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mommyneedsadayoff 08:03 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Sahmmie:
Co-sleeping is part of the "attachment parenting" movement. Baby should never cry. Baby should be coddled every waking (and sleeping) moment. In my opinion, this teaches babies that they cannot possibly cope without mommy which is not in baby's best interest at all. Most "attached/co-sleeping" babies I've known are chronically miserable unless they are being held, rocked, nursed, etc.

There's a difference between being attentive and being attached 24/7 to your child. I was an attentive mother but none of my babies slept with me and I did not wear them in a sling all day. They were happy babies who could entertain themselves while I folded a load of laundry or left the room for a few minutes and they all slept in their own beds from birth
I have seen some solid attachment parents who use balance. I have also seen the extreme attachment parent who lives and breathes their baby 24/7 and it is incredibly unhealthy. The only nanny job I ever quit was one of them. She was making herself sick with worry and her baby was perfectly fine! No matter what me and her husband said, she questioned whether it was good for the baby or would lead to brain damage. She was a pathologist and her dh an ER doc...incredibly smart people, very clueless parents. I couldn't be a part of it anymore.

My only contention with some attachment parents is the CIO issue and the fact that they sometimes act as though their style of parenting is the only truly acceptable way. If you do it differently, you are hurting your child in some way. I could say the same to them, but I don't, because I don't really care how they do things. But they truly care that I am causing brain damage because my babies cry sometimes. I am still trying to figure out when commonsense left parenting, but for me, it all started with my crazy nanny family and a giant Dr. Sears book.
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Baby Beluga 08:22 AM 05-24-2017
I don't agree with bed sharing.

I think there needs to be better education and terminology on co-sleeping.

Many hear co-sleeping and think "baby needs to sleep in my bed with me." It is simply not safe. What is safe is having babe sleep in their own bed/bassinet/pack and play either in the parents room or in their own room.

Similar to what BC said, bed sharing is a band aide for over worked, over tired, over scheduled families who want to sleep without putting in the work of teaching their children how to sleep.
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Controlled Chaos 08:26 AM 05-24-2017
I have almost all co sleeping families. They train after a few weeks and sleep fine here. My only irritation is when they whine about it 😁
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LittleScholars 09:24 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by lovemykidstoo:
I know that some totally agree with this but what is going on with the parents that have the kiddos in bed with them every night? I have yet another parent that I questioned why junior does not like his bed here and she finally told me what I already knew and that he sleeps with them. He's a year old. I have 2 parents that do that out of 8. Does noone know about SIDS? I don't recall any of my friends siblings sleeping with their parents when I was little. Do you guys agree with it/disagree with it? What are your thoughts? I am thinking, first of all it's dangerous. My one dcg is almost 2 and wonder if they're sleeping and she wanders around the house what could happen. Secondly, I don't know how any of them could get proper sleep.
Nearly all of my friends bed share. I'd say 50% do it for the exact reason BC stated, and 50% do it because they believe we push children to be too independent too soon in this country. All of my friends are very well-educated, and are fully aware of the risk of SIDS.

I'll tell you that of my mommy friends I was the first to move my guy to his crib (at 4 months), and they thought it was super weird.
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lovemykidstoo 09:39 AM 05-24-2017
I agree, my bed was my sanctuary and their beds were theres. I now have a 19 year old son and 16 year old daughter. The only time they slept with us is if there was a bad storm or something and they were scared. I don't care which way you slice it, sleeping in a bed with an infant is dangerous. Accidents happen every single day like that. This particular child is a drop in. His brother comes 3 days a week, but grandma watches him. Mom came last night and I was holding him and I told her that he cries every time that I put him down and she said oh I know, he does that at home too. I can't put him down. Well, yes you can, he may cry though at first until he gets used to entertaining himself. He's a year old and doesn't even crawl. I see a problem.
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CityGarden 09:48 AM 05-24-2017
I wanted to chime in with another perspective....

I am not an AP parent, if I had to put myself in a category I would say I am a RIE parent but I co-slept with my daughter and some of our most fond memories were formed in those moments. From her infant eyes gazing up at me when she awoke to the ten year old whose nights end in bed sharing a love of literature asking, "have you finished your chapter?" .... "Okay maybe just one more chapter..." etc. At ten she spends weeknights in her bed and 1-2 weekend nights co-sleeping in my bed staying up late reading beside me.

When dd was young co-sleeping took time, safety precautions had to be taken into account and it limited my ability to have others give me a break for more than a couple hours but it worked for us. When we transitioned to dd learning to sleep on her own I sat by her bed and held her hand, each night and each nap.... in a moment of questioning myself I mentioned it to a friend whose child was entering her teens she said "Be grateful she wants you to hold her hand, all too soon she will not even want you in her room." Today I am grateful for the days I was able to hold her hand as the time I have with her is fleeting and precious so I have no regrets. Society is rushing her to grow up and be independent, the homework load is intense, etc. so I understand dd's desire to have a space/rhythm at home to reconnect.
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Annalee 10:44 AM 05-24-2017
IMO, despite the safety concerns, co-sleeping causes kids to be extra tired in the morning. I tell parents all the time "their kids are sleeping but they are not RESTING". No one can rest with that many people in the same bed. Plus the kids never get a nap at home because they won't sleep unless a parent is beside them....BUT they sleep for us at daycare! Go Figure! Parents just don't want to put the time into it!
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Ariana 10:46 AM 05-24-2017
It is definitely part of a new trend where we keep hearing things about women in African tribes who carry their babes all day and cosleep all night, and how those babies never cry. How American moms are so seperated from their poor babies etc. Moms here start to feel guilty and your start to convince yourself it is better. Maybe it IS better but I am not living in an African tribe with oodles of other women around supporting me. I tried to cosleep but it cost me 8 months worth if sleep and I barely even remember my daughters first 8 months. I think it can work but you need a support system OR you need to be a sound sleeper. I was a light sleeper.

Having said all of that when it comes to daycare, cosleeping parents are not helping their kids transition to group care. They think they can live in the African tribe at their house but then transition easily to American life while they go to work. Those children are exhausted and it isn't fair to them.
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Ariana 10:48 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Annalee:
IMO, despite the safety concerns, co-sleeping causes kids to be extra tired in the morning. I tell parents all the time "their kids are sleeping but they are not RESTING". No one can rest with that many people in the same bed. Plus the kids never get a nap at home because they won't sleep unless a parent is beside them....BUT they sleep for us at daycare! Go Figure! Parents just don't want to put the time into it!
Absolutely! I had a child sleep at my house for 5 hours straight he was so exhausted from cosleeping.
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Annalee 10:51 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
Absolutely! I had a child sleep at my house for 5 hours straight he was so exhausted from cosleeping.
My daycare kids go on cots at 12 months....this really blows parents minds
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lovemykidstoo 11:24 AM 05-24-2017
The child I have now that I initially wrote about is already up from nap (30 min) and is sitting here crying. Inconsolable. He does not know how to sleep alone. When he is home during the day and grandma watches him he sleeps on her chest in the lazy boy
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lovemykidstoo 11:25 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Annalee:
My daycare kids go on cots at 12 months....this really blows parents minds
lol Don't you love that! I get the parents that can't believe their child doesn't throw a fit during diaper changes. I have never in 16 years had a child that threw a fit at diaper changes.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:29 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
I wanted to chime in with another perspective....

I am not an AP parent, if I had to put myself in a category I would say I am a RIE parent but I co-slept with my daughter and some of our most fond memories were formed in those moments. From her infant eyes gazing up at me when she awoke to the ten year old whose nights end in bed sharing a love of literature asking, "have you finished your chapter?" .... "Okay maybe just one more chapter..." etc. At ten she spends weeknights in her bed and 1-2 weekend nights co-sleeping in my bed staying up late reading beside me.

When dd was young co-sleeping took time, safety precautions had to be taken into account and it limited my ability to have others give me a break for more than a couple hours but it worked for us. When we transitioned to dd learning to sleep on her own I sat by her bed and held her hand, each night and each nap.... in a moment of questioning myself I mentioned it to a friend whose child was entering her teens she said "Be grateful she wants you to hold her hand, all too soon she will not even want you in her room." Today I am grateful for the days I was able to hold her hand as the time I have with her is fleeting and precious so I have no regrets. Society is rushing her to grow up and be independent, the homework load is intense, etc. so I understand dd's desire to have a space/rhythm at home to reconnect.
Were you working outside the home at this time? I noticed that all my friends and dc families (obviously) who bedshare work outside the home and are away from their child for a good portion of the day, so that time at night is very important for them. I was and still am home with mine all day, so come bed time, we all need a break from each other I can understand the bonding aspect and since many of the ones I know are working outside the home, the number of hours to fit it all in were more limited, so night time was their bonding time.

I am curious if there is a correlation between the two. Probably not, but just something I noticed Any providers here who were home with their kids, and still bed shared at night? I find the subject fascinating.
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mommyneedsadayoff 11:32 AM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
It is definitely part of a new trend where we keep hearing things about women in African tribes who carry their babes all day and cosleep all night, and how those babies never cry. How American moms are so seperated from their poor babies etc. Moms here start to feel guilty and your start to convince yourself it is better. Maybe it IS better but I am not living in an African tribe with oodles of other women around supporting me. I tried to cosleep but it cost me 8 months worth if sleep and I barely even remember my daughters first 8 months. I think it can work but you need a support system OR you need to be a sound sleeper. I was a light sleeper.

Having said all of that when it comes to daycare, cosleeping parents are not helping their kids transition to group care. They think they can live in the African tribe at their house but then transition easily to American life while they go to work. Those children are exhausted and it isn't fair to them.
This has been my experience too. Those women in africa are doing it out of neccessity and working while caring for the kids. They also have extended family around to help and "the village" mentality is integral. It is so vastly different than the typical american life, so I never understood the comparison. "Sleeping with and wearing your baby is the most natural thing ever and women have been doing it for decades! It is totally unnatural to be separated from your baby when they are little because they need you!" (said as they drop the baby at daycare for 10 hours)
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CityGarden 12:21 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Annalee:
IMO, despite the safety concerns, co-sleeping causes kids to be extra tired in the morning. I tell parents all the time "their kids are sleeping but they are not RESTING". No one can rest with that many people in the same bed. Plus the kids never get a nap at home because they won't sleep unless a parent is beside them....BUT they sleep for us at daycare! Go Figure! Parents just don't want to put the time into it!
Co-sleeping does not cause children to be extra tired in the morning - parents not ensuring their child gets the proper amount of quality sleep, regardless of location, does. Most parents I know put their children down significantly later than they should and we do not live in a society that values sleep - most of us (adults and children) walk around sleep deprived. Also all the technology and screen time does not help - my dd had zero screen time so that helped when she was little. Also my dd did nap at home because I would make sure she was tired by having an active and not passive day and I would lay beside her or sit beside and hold her hand until she went to sleep. I did put in the time, I would say CIO is the cliff notes version compared to the amount of time I dedicated to my daughter building a positive association and skill to go to sleep independently.

I suggest the book Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep? to all new families in my program as I am a HUGE sleep advocate https://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Ame...ess+in+america

Each family is different so I try to not make sweeping assumptions or statements if I had been working full time or had multiple children I doubt I would have dedicated the time that I did, I would have perhaps done some version of CIO.


Originally Posted by Ariana:
I tried to cosleep but it cost me 8 months worth if sleep and I barely even remember my daughters first 8 months. I think it can work but you need a support system OR you need to be a sound sleeper. I was a light sleeper.

Having said all of that when it comes to daycare, cosleeping parents are not helping their kids transition to group care.
I think the key to sharing a bed with anyone - husband, child, dog, etc. is that it has to work for everyone and everyone needs to be able to consistently get the sleep they need. If this is not the case then you need to make a change. I could not share a bed with someone who snores..... or someone who sweats significantly - that would be the case if it were a husband, a child or a dog and I would not feel bad about it.

Co-sleeping parents who out of need or desire put their child in group care should set them up for success and take the time for training so I 100% agree there.
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mommyneedsadayoff 12:40 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
Co-sleeping does not cause children to be extra tired in the morning - parents not ensuring their child gets the proper amount of quality sleep, regardless of location, does. Most parents I know put their children down significantly later than they should and we do not live in a society that values sleep - most of us (adults and children) walk around sleep deprived. Also all the technology and screen time does not help - my dd had zero screen time so that helped when she was little. Also my dd did nap at home because I would make sure she was tired by having an active and not passive day and I would lay beside her or sit beside and hold her hand until she went to sleep. I did put in the time, I would say CIO is the cliff notes version compared to the amount of time I dedicated to my daughter building a positive association and skill to go to sleep independently.

I suggest the book Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep? to all new families in my program as I am a HUGE sleep advocate https://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Ame...ess+in+america

Each family is different so I try to not make sweeping assumptions or statements if I had been working full time or had multiple children I doubt I would have dedicated the time that I did, I would have perhaps done some version of CIO.




I think the key to sharing a bed with anyone - husband, child, dog, etc. is that it has to work for everyone and everyone needs to be able to consistently get the sleep they need. If this is not the case then you need to make a change. I could not share a bed with someone who snores..... or someone who sweats significantly - that would be the case if it were a husband, a child or a dog and I would not feel bad about it.

Co-sleeping parents who out of need or desire put their child in group care should set them up for success and take the time for training so I 100% agree there.
Maybe i am misunderstandind, but are you saying that CIO is the easy way and if you hadnt felt the need to dedicate so much of your time, you would have just done that
I have never done CIO bc it was easy! My babies rarely cried bc healthy sleep patterns were established from the start, but I did use CIO during different point so they would recognize that they dont need ME to go to sleep. With respect, you taught your daughter that she NEEDS you to hold her hand to fall asleep, but she doesnt. And that ok! But it does not mean that other ways are taking the easy way out. People ask all the time how they can teach their child to fall asleep. They dont need to be taught. They just need you to fascilitate the environment and encourage them to figure it out bc its natural. I didnt teach my kid how to poop. I just gave them the space and they figured it out! Sorry if i am misunderstanding what you are saying!
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Blackcat31 12:44 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
Co-sleeping does not cause children to be extra tired in the morning - parents not ensuring their child gets the proper amount of quality sleep, regardless of location, does.
I disagree. I have had a lot of co-sleeping families and have never had a positive experience in regards to mood and rest time here when they co-sleep at home.

https://www.todaysparent.com/family/...s-co-sleeping/
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mommyneedsadayoff 12:53 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I disagree. I have had a lot of co-sleeping families and have never had a positive experience in regards to mood and rest time here when they co-sleep at home.

https://www.todaysparent.com/family/...s-co-sleeping/
This was my experience also. They were the first to fall asleep and last ones to wake up. As citygarden mentioned, she wouldnt be able to sleep with a sweater or a snorer, but sometimes the sleeping paremt does not know how their movements and sleep habits effect the child next to them, well, bc they are sleeping. I moved my son in his room at one month(he was in a bassinet) bc everytime i rolled over or moved, he would stir. He slept through the night as soon as we moved him and I feel it was entirely bc our sleep movements were waking him up.
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CityGarden 01:17 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Were you working outside the home at this time? I noticed that all my friends and dc families (obviously) who bedshare work outside the home and are away from their child for a good portion of the day, so that time at night is very important for them. I was and still am home with mine all day, so come bed time, we all need a break from each other I can understand the bonding aspect and since many of the ones I know are working outside the home, the number of hours to fit it all in were more limited, so night time was their bonding time.

I am curious if there is a correlation between the two. Probably not, but just something I noticed Any providers here who were home with their kids, and still bed shared at night? I find the subject fascinating.
I was not working outside of the home at that time. Perhaps I am in the minority but I did not often feel I needed a break from my dd when she was young. One misconception with bed-sharing / co-sleeping (even among those who practice it) is that you should go to bed at the same time but we obviously have different sleep needs. My dd would go to bed at 6:30/7:00pm for years and I would change her diaper and go to bed about 11PM. I would lay down with her initially but I would get up and have hours to myself until I went to bed. It is very tempting to either go to bed early with the child or to keep the child up until the adult is ready to go to bed but that does not meet the sleep needs for all involved.

Now that my dd is school age I do think she values our weekend nights when we read in bed and co-sleep for the bonding aspect, similar to what you describe above and we do on those nights go to bed at the same time which is different than when she was younger.
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CityGarden 01:57 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Maybe i am misunderstandind, but are you saying that CIO is the easy way and if you hadnt felt the need to dedicate so much of your time, you would have just done that
I have never done CIO bc it was easy! My babies rarely cried bc healthy sleep patterns were established from the start, but I did use CIO during different point so they would recognize that they dont need ME to go to sleep. With respect, you taught your daughter that she NEEDS you to hold her hand to fall asleep, but she doesnt. And that ok! But it does not mean that other ways are taking the easy way out.
No I was not saying CIO is easy or the easy way out (and for the record I am not against CIO) but I do find it accomplishes the same result I accomplished in far less time - which I do not feel is a bad thing. The cliff's notes version of Romeo and Juliet tells the same story as Shakespeare.... just one does it much more directly both have their pros and cons (and I tend to read both).

Also respectfully I did not teach my dd the she needs me to hold her hand to fall asleep. We took a more gradual approach:
Many co-sleeping families I know stop at my second step.... which would not have worked for me and I value my sleep too much and felt it was important for my dd to be able to sleep independently.

Just because I took a more gradual approach does not mean I taught my dd to NEED me to fall asleep. I feel I took time for training the same way a mom who opts to CIO does. I created a daily rhythm and setting that met my child and my own sleep needs. She is a happy, well-adjusted, honor roll student who also is a dedicated ballerina. She sleeps more than most of her peers as she has a 7:30pm bedtime where she sleeps in her own room and on the weekends we enjoy our cuddle time when we co-sleep.

Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
People ask all the time how they can teach their child to fall asleep. They don't need to be taught. They just need you to facilitate the environment and encourage them to figure it out bc its natural. I didn't teach my kid how to poop. I just gave them the space and they figured it out! Sorry if i am misunderstanding what you are saying!
Some would argue babies can be thrown in a pool and do not need to be taught how to swim --- "give them the space and they will figure it out". I am sure for some children and some families this is true but for my family I have to take time for training - CIO is taking time for training, what I did was taking time for training. Children learn in different ways and teachers have different approaches to teaching....
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hwichlaz 02:10 PM 05-24-2017
I co-slept with all three of mine (not at once, lol). We altered our bed frame so there wasn't any space between teh frame and the matress, and only slept with a light blanket, no comforters etc. I started doing it after I fell asleep driving with my baby in the car. Me too tired to safely drive and parent was putting my child at a higher risk than cosleeping was.
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mommyneedsadayoff 02:13 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
No I was not saying CIO is easy or the easy way out (and for the record I am not against CIO) but I do find it accomplishes the same result I accomplished in far less time - which I do not feel is a bad thing. The cliff's notes version of Romeo and Juliet tells the same story as Shakespeare.... just one does it much more directly both have their pros and cons (and I tend to read both).

Also respectfully I did not teach my dd the she needs me to hold her hand to fall asleep. We took a more gradual approach:
  • first co-sleeping where mom sleeps when the baby sleeps,
  • then me laying next to her for her to fall asleep and stepping away once she was asleep
  • then me holding her hand while sitting in a chair close to the bed telling her I would leave but was nearby
  • finally to bedtime story and I am out (wine time! )

Many co-sleeping families I know stop at my second step.... which would not have worked for me and I value my sleep too much and felt it was important for my dd to be able to sleep independently.

Just because I took a more gradual approach does not mean I taught my dd to NEED me to fall asleep. I feel I took time for training the same way a mom who opts to CIO does. I created a daily rhythm and setting that met my child and my own sleep needs. She is a happy, well-adjusted, honor roll student who also is a dedicated ballerina. She sleeps more than most of her peers as she has a 7:30pm bedtime where she sleeps in her own room and on the weekends we enjoy our cuddle time when we co-sleep.



Some would argue babies can be thrown in a pool and do not need to be taught how to swim --- "give them the space and they will figure it out". I am sure for some children and some families this is true but for my family I have to take time for training - CIO is taking time for training, what I did was taking time for training. Children learn in different ways and teachers have different approaches to teaching....
The reason I felt you were implying it was the easy way out is because Cliff's notes are the easy way out versus reading the whole book, kwim?

How much time did it take before your dd was sleeping without you being there? As in, you would say good night, leave the room, and she would sleep through the night without you? I know it varies for everyone, but ime, kids who bed share do not begin sleeping solo through the night into well after the first year. Was your experience different?

As for the last part, a baby is in utero in fluid, but attached to mother for oxygen. After they come out, we don't teach them how to breathe, they naturally figure that out. Tossing them back in water after that point is completely absurd since they now depend on oxygen to survive, although I have heard of newborns doing wuite fine in pools. Not sure about the comparison though? The reason I bolded the training part is because you said you had to train your child and you took a gradual approach. Maybe that is where I am misunderstanding and we have different views on CIO. CIO was never a training tool for me. It was the babies natural response to waking in sleep or to soothing themselves to sleep. It had NOTHING to do with me. I don't train kids to sleep. I just don't get in the way of it. I am not trying to pick you apart, but I am curious as to why parents feel they need to hold the hand, rock, nurse to sleep, ect. Is it about the baby or more about the parents comfort level with crying?

I appreciate a great discussion City and I hope you do not feel I am trying to put you down. I really just want to know why parents are so intent on making sleep a problem they need to solve or something they must ease their child in to. I just find it very fascinating and the only thing I have come up with so far is that they don't want the child to cry. They feel the cry is out of distress and has nothing to do with sleep. This has been my experience and I appreciate your insight!
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spinnymarie 06:10 PM 05-24-2017
We co-slept with all three babies - the first two while I was working full-time and the last while I was at home with everyone. We chose to co-sleep because we enjoy it. Our babies all napped independently just fine.
Ours are all now as children perfectly fine sleepers in their own beds, though we do all like to cuddle in the morning on the weekends.
Our children stayed with their grandmother while I was at work.
I do feel strongly that co-sleeping does NOT usually set up a healthy sleep pattern for a child that has to go to daycare all day with many other children. My mom was happy/excited to rock babies, but that is not possible at daycare.
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lovemykidstoo 06:35 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Maybe i am misunderstandind, but are you saying that CIO is the easy way and if you hadnt felt the need to dedicate so much of your time, you would have just done that
I have never done CIO bc it was easy! My babies rarely cried bc healthy sleep patterns were established from the start, but I did use CIO during different point so they would recognize that they dont need ME to go to sleep. With respect, you taught your daughter that she NEEDS you to hold her hand to fall asleep, but she doesnt. And that ok! But it does not mean that other ways are taking the easy way out. People ask all the time how they can teach their child to fall asleep. They dont need to be taught. They just need you to fascilitate the environment and encourage them to figure it out bc its natural. I didnt teach my kid how to poop. I just gave them the space and they figured it out! Sorry if i am misunderstanding what you are saying!
This exactly. We have 2 kids (19 and 16 now), but I never put them to bed asleep. I always would feed them and put them down when they were nearly asleep. This way, they learned from day 1, how to put themselves to sleep. Therefore, if they woke up in the middle of the night, they didn't need to cry because they knew how to self-sooth. Of course we did go through a 3 week period where my daughter went through a phase where she would wake up and cry. I would go in, rub her forehead for a minute and walk out. Gradually every night she cried less and it was over before we knew it. When one of my dck's is an infant just born and is sleeping between the parents and dad is a large man and she is a week old, I'm sorry, that is NOT safe!
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Annalee 07:03 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
Co-sleeping does not cause children to be extra tired in the morning - parents not ensuring their child gets the proper amount of quality sleep, regardless of location, does. Most parents I know put their children down significantly later than they should and we do not live in a society that values sleep - most of us (adults and children) walk around sleep deprived. Also all the technology and screen time does not help - my dd had zero screen time so that helped when she was little. Also my dd did nap at home because I would make sure she was tired by having an active and not passive day and I would lay beside her or sit beside and hold her hand until she went to sleep. I did put in the time, I would say CIO is the cliff notes version compared to the amount of time I dedicated to my daughter building a positive association and skill to go to sleep independently.

I suggest the book Sleepless in America: Is Your Child Misbehaving...or Missing Sleep? to all new families in my program as I am a HUGE sleep advocate https://www.amazon.com/Sleepless-Ame...ess+in+america

I have right now and have had many kids that are so tired from co-sleeping but have slept, in their parents mind, a good 8-10 hours. In my experience, one parent ends up in another bed which again means they lost their bed so they still don't rest good The entire family is affected but do not take the time to fix the problem!
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Max 07:37 PM 05-24-2017
Anyone else on any mom boards/groups where majority of the pro co-sleepers get super defensive whenever SIDS is brought up? When it comes up, everyone promotes it but no one mentions SUID so as soon as I do (respectfully, just so all the info is out there) everyone is quick to point out that SUID/SIDS is sudden and unknown, and very different from suffocation. Which yes that's true but... Doesn't our training teach that since the back to sleep campaign and promotion of safe sleep measures, the number of SIDS/SUID cases has significantly dropped?

These groups I'm on view anyone who points out the risk of co-sleeping as a fear mongering stick-in-the-mud who is on their high horse So I must say, I'm happy I don't see any of that here! I don't have anything against people who co-sleep. I get it, we're all going to make different choices in life, especially with kids.

Sorry, just had to vent about these other groups

FWIW~ I currently co-sleep and struggle with it (mentally). Baby sleeps fine in his crib at night and for short naps during the day but I'm working 3rd shift (10.5 hr shifts) and need to sleep during the day. I'm drawing the line this week.. If I can't get on another shift, I'm outta here! DC is close to being ready anyways! Plus, baby needs to get more used to how our lives will be once DC opens
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mommyneedsadayoff 10:09 PM 05-24-2017
Originally Posted by Max:
Anyone else on any mom boards/groups where majority of the pro co-sleepers get super defensive whenever SIDS is brought up? When it comes up, everyone promotes it but no one mentions SUID so as soon as I do (respectfully, just so all the info is out there) everyone is quick to point out that SUID/SIDS is sudden and unknown, and very different from suffocation. Which yes that's true but... Doesn't our training teach that since the back to sleep campaign and promotion of safe sleep measures, the number of SIDS/SUID cases has significantly dropped?

These groups I'm on view anyone who points out the risk of co-sleeping as a fear mongering stick-in-the-mud who is on their high horse So I must say, I'm happy I don't see any of that here! I don't have anything against people who co-sleep. I get it, we're all going to make different choices in life, especially with kids.

Sorry, just had to vent about these other groups

FWIW~ I currently co-sleep and struggle with it (mentally). Baby sleeps fine in his crib at night and for short naps during the day but I'm working 3rd shift (10.5 hr shifts) and need to sleep during the day. I'm drawing the line this week.. If I can't get on another shift, I'm outta here! DC is close to being ready anyways! Plus, baby needs to get more used to how our lives will be once DC opens
I have seen that on many FB groups. Ironically, the same people blow a gasket when i mention CIO or self soothing, because of brain damage. If you do the research, it does not exist, but according to them, I am hurting my child, yet the info on SIDS is considered fear mongering.
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Josiegirl 04:15 AM 05-25-2017
Co-sleeping with infants has got to be dangerous. And it's totally frustrating when a child is 2+ and the parent just gives up and lets them sleep in their bed. From a provider's standpoint it makes our day a little bit harder.
I have a 4 yo dcg who still sleeps with mom and dad a lot. This girl hardly ever naps here but I do keep her on a cot with books. Her mom has a fit if she falls asleep because then she won't go to bed at night. Last weekend she didn't nap and still didn't sleep early or well. I spoke up and said 'then I guess it doesn't matter if she naps or not'. This girl clearly has not been taught to self-soothe and fall asleep on her own.
It's frustrating when they shift the blame to us for letting them nap, yet don't do their part to help teach healthy sleep patterns.
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Ariana 09:18 AM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I disagree. I have had a lot of co-sleeping families and have never had a positive experience in regards to mood and rest time here when they co-sleep at home.

https://www.todaysparent.com/family/...s-co-sleeping/
My experience as well and since most cosleeping parents, who have their kids with us are working, they don't necessarily understand or see first hand the ramifications.
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daycarediva 09:37 AM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
I wanted to chime in with another perspective....

I am not an AP parent, if I had to put myself in a category I would say I am a RIE parent but I co-slept with my daughter and some of our most fond memories were formed in those moments. From her infant eyes gazing up at me when she awoke to the ten year old whose nights end in bed sharing a love of literature asking, "have you finished your chapter?" .... "Okay maybe just one more chapter..." etc. At ten she spends weeknights in her bed and 1-2 weekend nights co-sleeping in my bed staying up late reading beside me.

When dd was young co-sleeping took time, safety precautions had to be taken into account and it limited my ability to have others give me a break for more than a couple hours but it worked for us. When we transitioned to dd learning to sleep on her own I sat by her bed and held her hand, each night and each nap.... in a moment of questioning myself I mentioned it to a friend whose child was entering her teens she said "Be grateful she wants you to hold her hand, all too soon she will not even want you in her room." Today I am grateful for the days I was able to hold her hand as the time I have with her is fleeting and precious so I have no regrets. Society is rushing her to grow up and be independent, the homework load is intense, etc. so I understand dd's desire to have a space/rhythm at home to reconnect.

Out of curiosity, are you married/have a SO? How's your sex life? Our 'marriage bed' and room is sacred space for us. Child free (and if my child is scared or sick, dh and I will sleep in their rooms with them, not the other way around)

Sounds like it worked for you well though.

Originally Posted by Blackcat31:
I disagree. I have had a lot of co-sleeping families and have never had a positive experience in regards to mood and rest time here when they co-sleep at home.

https://www.todaysparent.com/family/...s-co-sleeping/
Same experience here. For working parents in my experience, it has been a nightmare and just a bandaid on serious sleep issues.
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Cat Herder 11:27 AM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Out of curiosity, are you married/have a SO? How's your sex life?
Get out of my head. Marriage already has a high enough failure rate, why push it over the ledge.

Everyone here knows my views on this topic pretty well, so I shall refrain from the soapbox.
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hwichlaz 12:07 PM 05-25-2017
My sex life was uneffected...we just had sex other places then our bed.
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mommyneedsadayoff 12:14 PM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by hwichlaz:
My sex life was uneffected...we just had sex other places then our bed.
Can I ask how your SO felt about co sleeping? I did not bed share because I cannot sleep with a kid int he bed. I think it is because I am a light sleeper and I worry too much. In fact, even now, I sleep so lightly at night that when saturday/sunday com around, my dh gets up at 7 or 8 and I sleep HARD till about 10. Once he is up and I know he has ears on the kids and is "on duty", I can finally relax and I literally PASS out! Anyway, back to my question, because when I was pregnant with my first, I mentioned having a bassinet or one of those types that goes in your bed and he said no. He was adamant about it. He sleeps like the dead, which is probably why I sleep so lightly at night, but it was not just about being scared to roll on the baby. It was also about keeping our bed for us. I almost got the sense that he was scared I would kick him out or start choosing the baby over him. It was a vulnerable side to him that he does not show often and it stuck with me, so bed sharing was never even an option. Did you experience that or did your SO not care either way? Do they sleep ok with the baby in bed too? Thanks for any feedback! I love this topic!
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hwichlaz 12:35 PM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
Can I ask how your SO felt about co sleeping? I did not bed share because I cannot sleep with a kid int he bed. I think it is because I am a light sleeper and I worry too much. In fact, even now, I sleep so lightly at night that when saturday/sunday com around, my dh gets up at 7 or 8 and I sleep HARD till about 10. Once he is up and I know he has ears on the kids and is "on duty", I can finally relax and I literally PASS out! Anyway, back to my question, because when I was pregnant with my first, I mentioned having a bassinet or one of those types that goes in your bed and he said no. He was adamant about it. He sleeps like the dead, which is probably why I sleep so lightly at night, but it was not just about being scared to roll on the baby. It was also about keeping our bed for us. I almost got the sense that he was scared I would kick him out or start choosing the baby over him. It was a vulnerable side to him that he does not show often and it stuck with me, so bed sharing was never even an option. Did you experience that or did your SO not care either way? Do they sleep ok with the baby in bed too? Thanks for any feedback! I love this topic!
At first, he was against it. But I was exhausted and fell asleep driving one day....luckily kind of came to a slow stop on the shoulder of the road. Then I fell asleep nursing him in the rocking chair and dropped him. So I told my DH that it wasn't fair that I was doing all of the getting up with our son since I was breastfeeding....so if he didn't want to cosleep that was fine...but he needed to be the one to put him back in his own bed when I was done nursing him. He agreed, then lasted 3 nights. He realized he wasn't in danger of rolling over on him at all. That we both are the kind of sleepers that wake up a little bit to change positions. Then DH loved it because he got to wake up to see his son looking at him, watching him in the morning...and when daddy would open his eyes, Timmy would smile really big at him. <3
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CityGarden 02:17 PM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by mommyneedsadayoff:
I appreciate a great discussion City and I hope you do not feel I am trying to put you down. I really just want to know why parents are so intent on making sleep a problem they need to solve or something they must ease their child in to. I just find it very fascinating and the only thing I have come up with so far is that they don't want the child to cry. They feel the cry is out of distress and has nothing to do with sleep. This has been my experience and I appreciate your insight!
I too appreciate good discussions - I typically won't comment on such a hot button topisc especially because I don't feel there is any one right approach. Sleep was not something I felt the need to solve or fix, in the moment I just did what felt natural for me.
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CityGarden 02:29 PM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by daycarediva:
Out of curiosity, are you married/have a SO? How's your sex life? Our 'marriage bed' and room is sacred space for us. Child free (and if my child is scared or sick, dh and I will sleep in their rooms with them, not the other way around)

Sounds like it worked for you well though.
I do have a SO, we do not live together, and we have a fantastic and creative sex life but at that time I was a single mom escaping an abusive partner. It did work well for me at the time... and some of my most precious memories with my dd were in those small moments. If I marry and have future children it would have to be a conversation for my husband and I to decide together - and I am not set on any one way.

I will say my SO parents in a similar fashion as we are both very active in our children's lives ---- he flies out of state for every basketball game of his college age son and he encourages me to cherish the moments with my daughter and to not rush her to milestones or to rush her growing up. We just enjoy them.
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Ariana 03:56 PM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
I too appreciate good discussions - I typically won't comment on such a hot button topisc especially because I don't feel there is any one right approach. Sleep was not something I felt the need to solve or fix, in the moment I just did what felt natural for me.
To me you did what was best for both of you and you were at home with him during the day. I think most of us are talking about kids in daycare. I know I did things with my kids that I couldn't have done if they had been going to daycare. This is a big part of the priviledge of being at home. I personally think that attachment parenting type of style only works for stay at home parents.
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CityGarden 04:43 PM 05-25-2017
Originally Posted by Ariana:
To me you did what was best for both of you and you were at home with him during the day. I think most of us are talking about kids in daycare. I know I did things with my kids that I couldn't have done if they had been going to daycare. This is a big part of the priviledge of being at home. I personally think that attachment parenting type of style only works for stay at home parents.
Originally Posted by spinnymarie:
We co-slept with all three babies - the first two while I was working full-time and the last while I was at home with everyone. We chose to co-sleep because we enjoy it. Our babies all napped independently just fine.
Ours are all now as children perfectly fine sleepers in their own beds, though we do all like to cuddle in the morning on the weekends.
Our children stayed with their grandmother while I was at work.
I do feel strongly that co-sleeping does NOT usually set up a healthy sleep pattern for a child that has to go to daycare all day with many other children. My mom was happy/excited to rock babies, but that is not possible at daycare.
Yes Ariana I do feel I did what worked for us and I do feel it was in large part because I was not working outside the home. I do agree with spinnymarie that I too feel "strongly that co-sleeping does NOT usually set up a healthy sleep pattern for a child that has to go to daycare all day with many other children."
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Max 03:14 AM 05-26-2017
Mommyneedsadayoff I know you didn't ask me but my DH is super pro co-sleeping but I had to tell him that it's just not working for me - I was too worried about the baby in our bed and was NOT getting good sleep at all. My sleep is sacred... lol and being a tired mom all the time was no good for anyone! Plus I went on and on about safe sleep so now baby goes in the crib each night. My DH has been so infatuated with the new baby though, he's a big ol softy.

Anyways just thought I'd chime in on
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daycarediva 04:11 AM 05-26-2017
Originally Posted by CityGarden:
Yes Ariana I do feel I did what worked for us and I do feel it was in large part because I was not working outside the home. I do agree with spinnymarie that I too feel "strongly that co-sleeping does NOT usually set up a healthy sleep pattern for a child that has to go to daycare all day with many other children."


Originally Posted by CityGarden:
I do have a SO, we do not live together, and we have a fantastic and creative sex life but at that time I was a single mom escaping an abusive partner. It did work well for me at the time... and some of my most precious memories with my dd were in those small moments. If I marry and have future children it would have to be a conversation for my husband and I to decide together - and I am not set on any one way.

I will say my SO parents in a similar fashion as we are both very active in our children's lives ---- he flies out of state for every basketball game of his college age son and he encourages me to cherish the moments with my daughter and to not rush her to milestones or to rush her growing up. We just enjoy them.
wonderful! It's nice to hear a cosleeping perspective that wasn't a last resort just to get some sleep and had a good outcome.
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MotherNature 01:46 PM 06-05-2017
We bedshare. My 6 yr old will sleep in his bed grudgingly, and my 2 yr old does nap at the sitter's, but generally we all just sleep together. I'm in the vast minority bc I nursed my son til he lost his first tooth at 6. My 2 yr old still nurses, so it's easiest to have her next to me. My husband is actually the one that enjoyed the snuggles the most. Now that my son is all elbows, he prefers him in his own bed. We also have different shifts at work, so my husband isn't home at night, except on the weekends. Husband will put them into bed on weekends, usually in their own beds. My son has sensory issues, and we're awaiting another evaluation this summer for autism, and bedtime was an especially awful and long battle to win. I'll say that. For us initially, bedsharing was necessary to soothe him and allow us sleep. I often wonder though, worldwide what people think about everyone sleeping in their own bed, in their own room. That seems like a much more modern practice then everyone in the same bed or in the same room co-sleeping. And as for the sex question.. we just put them in their own beds or have sex elsewhere.
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Crazy Baby 02:26 PM 06-05-2017
I am not into the co sleeping thing. My son slept in a pack n play in our room until he was 6 months, but after that it has always been his own bed.

I have friends who have slept with their child in the bed since infant and he is almost 5 years old now and still rarely sleeps by himself. How can you have any sort of intimate relationship or good sleep like that? I don't personally get it. Maybe I am selfish, but it is not for my husband and I. I do not want a kid in my bed, no thank you.

Honestly, and maybe I am wrong to say this, but I find that the little boy that I know who sleeps with his parents is also ridiculously needy, like it's not normal. It could be related, I don't know.
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Tags:attachment parenting problems, co-sleeping, co-sleeping and daycare, narcissistic mother, sids, suids
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