Default Style Register
Daycare.com Forum
Daycare Center and Family Home Forum>Pink Dress Boy Update!
Sugar Magnolia 10:52 AM 05-13-2011
Well it went very well! As soon as he came in, he made a bee-line for the dress, as usual. I told him we needed to talk about dress up. (Mom heard the whole conversation and gave a thumbs up on the way out) This is how I explained it to him. "Boy X, I know you like to play dress up, but some of the new dress up clothes are getting torn because people play with other toys while wearing dress up clothes. From now on, dress up clothes must stay in the quiet area, so they don't get damaged. When you are done playing dress up in the quiet area, you hang them back up. If you want to play other things, you have to take dress up clothes off. If the dress gets ripped, it will have to get thrown away. See....look a loose thread already! So when you're done, you hang it up." He says ok. He puts on the dress. He admires himself in the mirror for awhile. He accesorizes and re-checks the mirror.

He plays with dolls and stuffed animals(they are in the quiet area too) and after 15 mins or so, starts to wander to the table where kids are doing puzzles. "Boy X, if you want to play puzzles, go hang up the dress." Him: "uhhhmmm I'm not done with it yet" me: ok, when you're done, come join us at the puzzle table." He lingers in the quiet area, dress on. Puzzles look soo fun though....he waits 5 more mins, takes the dress off and does some puzzles. NO TANTRUM!! About a half hour later, Girl X has the dress on. She has also been informed of the new rule, dress up clothes stay in the quiet area. Him: "is girl x allowed to play toys with the dress on?" Me: "nope". He is watching girl X like a hawk, but NO tantrums! Girl X is joined by Girl Y and also has a dress on. He watches intently. Girl X and Y are done in 10 mins. They put the dresses back. I praise them for doing a good job keeping dress up clothes in the quiet area. HE praises them too! About an hour later, the dress goes back on him. He stays put in quiet area. This time, he's done with it in 5 mins.

Now, if it continues to go this smoothly, the pink dress can stay and he can wear it within the limits of the quiet area. If not, and he regresses, the dress will get "torn" and disappear. If he (and all the other kids) are NOT allowed to wear the dress up stuff outside the quiet area, it will remove the enticement to go about his normal day wearing the pink dress. He wants to do activities and participate, he just wants to do them in a pink dress. But I am hoping this new policy will make the dress seem less attractive to him if he knows he can't wear it and play other things at the same time.

The Burning Question: do you all have a limit on when and where dress up clothes can be worn? I know its best to have most materials available for play at all times.... Do YOU all let kids dress up and stay dressed up while they do other activities? I am dying to know how you all handle dress up clothes! I have always let them play with dress up clothes freely, until the pink dress became an issue.
Reply
Zoe 10:59 AM 05-13-2011
Great job!

Yes, I don't think dress up clothes should be worn when the kids are playing with other toys. They get ripped. Dress up clothes are to be used when they're playing pretend games! It sounds like you are doing everything just fine!

Kudos!
Reply
sharlan 11:07 AM 05-13-2011
Fantastic. It sounds like you found the perfect solution for your situation.

I don't have dress up clothes, so that's not an issue for me.
Reply
ChaserT27 11:13 AM 05-13-2011
Sugar
I do not set time limits as far as toys (free play). However I do things a bit differently. We do have a pretend area (kitchen, dolls etc.) however I have the same exact things times the amt. of children I have. ;0( Free play is free play - and that in itself is timed but not the toys which they choose.

I also run my program on monthly themes so on the first business day of each month a *new* box of toys relative to the theme are put out. The kids tend to be intrigued by the new toys and do not get bored with them until the month is almost over.
While the theme toys I may not have one of the exact thing for each child, If and when a problem arises. I do not set time limits but I explain that when so and so is all done playing, you will be the next to have a turn. In the meantime, please find another toy to use. In general moments later the child will hand the toy over and say "you can have a turn now, I am all done" When they do not..the other child usually finds something else and forgets about the toy he or she wanted. There are toys that some children are attached to hence why I try to have more than one of everything. This was actually the first thing I was taught and my twins remind me of the rule on a daily basis
Apparently your approach worked like a charm - great job!!!
Reply
momofsix 11:13 AM 05-13-2011
Perfect! So glad you found a solution that worked for him and your group.

I don't limit dress up clothes. I don't have that many, but they usually go WITH other toys, such as princess dress is on the child being served breakfast in the kitchen, suit coat is on the person playing with the keyboard, hardhat and tool belt on the child building with blocks and tools...but not random toys with dress up on usually even though it's not a rule I have.
Reply
daycare 11:25 AM 05-13-2011
we do rotation station..

I have a lot of stuff, so I have to move things in and out of the DC room all of the time.

So this week our stations were:
math
sensory
dramatic play
games
zoo phonics
art
science

Only one station comes out at a time during class, then at free play they can choose one station to play with. They have to stay in the station area with whatever it is they are using. EX no taking seneory stuff to the math station.

I rotate all of my stuff out weekly. So something that may have been in the dress up bin one week, may not be there the next and something different may be in its place. so far I have never had any issues......
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 11:28 AM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by momofsix:
Perfect! So glad you found a solution that worked for him and your group.

I don't limit dress up clothes. I don't have that many, but they usually go WITH other toys, such as princess dress is on the child being served breakfast in the kitchen, suit coat is on the person playing with the keyboard, hardhat and tool belt on the child building with blocks and tools...but not random toys with dress up on usually even though it's not a rule I have.
I am HOPING to go back to unfettered access to dress up clothes eventually. It has never, ever been a problem. If they want to wear a police outfit while building blocks, or a pink dress while doing puzzles, fine. But this "limit" on the dress up clothes has to be enforced until the obsession with the dress wanes, IF it wanes. The MAIN THING I was concerned about was NOT giving the boy the impression that his like of the pink dress is "bad". I was afraid if I "disappeared" it, he would feel insecure and hurt or feel punished. That is the last thing he needs.
Reply
nannyde 12:35 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
About a half hour later, Girl X has the dress on. She has also been informed of the new rule, dress up clothes stay in the quiet area. Him: "is girl x allowed to play toys with the dress on?" Me: "nope". He is watching girl X like a hawk, but NO tantrums! Girl X is joined by Girl Y and also has a dress on. He watches intently. Girl X and Y are done in 10 mins. They put the dresses back. I praise them for doing a good job keeping dress up clothes in the quiet area. HE praises them too! About an hour later, the dress goes back on him. He stays put in quiet area. This time, he's done with it in 5 mins.
Just keep in mind that these behaviors:

Him: "is girl x allowed to play toys with the dress on?
He is watching girl X like a hawk,
Girl X is joined by Girl Y and also has a dress on. He watches intently
HE praises them too!


are all him DOING the dress.

All of your discussions with him about the rules... all of his listening... all of his interaction and understanding of the new rules... is him DOING the dress. It's all the same to him.

Whether he has it on or not these behaviors are the same to him in the fixation.

So when you look at it from a whole day... count in ANY thing he says or does regarding the dress as the same as if he had it on. Any discussions you or anyone else has with him regarding the dress that are designed to help him understand it or accept it without tantrums to HIM is him doing the dress.

That way you can see what portion of his day he is spending on the fixation.

It's all one and the same... so you have to decide if in totality you can move him into having the same relationship with the toy that everyone else does. Come and go as you please... okay to have it .. okay not to. Okay for someone else to wear it... don't even notice if they do.

Even though today is LESS in time of him wearing the dress that time was balanced out in his brain to how much attention/energy that was given to him regarding the dress. His time on the clock with him having it PLUS the adult/kids involvement/energy about it most likely left him square to what he normally gets out of the dress with his previous behavior.

So over time this must lessen or your interceding is all for nothing.

I'm not saying this because the toy is a pink dress. I would be given you identical advice if it was a purple gorrilla. They are one and the same.

A fixation is a fixation and the human baby doesn't do well in a group/pack when allowed to fixate on something that belongs to the community. The fixation is ... in and of itself.. an escalation. The escalation will move his brain away from what he is there for in the first place... which is to receive good care and be around other human babies in a playing/learning environment.

He can't DO both at the same. He can't have this fixation and receive from your environment what he is there for in the first place. It's impossible for him to have both. You know this because you brought it to us as an issue... because it IS an issue.
Reply
ChaserT27 12:41 PM 05-13-2011
OK so you are not going to believe this, however I get my mail today. I collect the Collectibles today babies. And I got a new one today..how odd considering the subject above
Pic attached for those interested! Goes to show the majority of the world's thought on the subject
Attached: IMG_0127.jpg (56.7 KB) 
Reply
QualiTcare 01:39 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Well it went very well! As soon as he came in, he made a bee-line for the dress, as usual. I told him we needed to talk about dress up. (Mom heard the whole conversation and gave a thumbs up on the way out) This is how I explained it to him. "Boy X, I know you like to play dress up, but some of the new dress up clothes are getting torn because people play with other toys while wearing dress up clothes. From now on, dress up clothes must stay in the quiet area, so they don't get damaged. When you are done playing dress up in the quiet area, you hang them back up. If you want to play other things, you have to take dress up clothes off. If the dress gets ripped, it will have to get thrown away. See....look a loose thread already! So when you're done, you hang it up." He says ok. He puts on the dress. He admires himself in the mirror for awhile. He accesorizes and re-checks the mirror.

He plays with dolls and stuffed animals(they are in the quiet area too) and after 15 mins or so, starts to wander to the table where kids are doing puzzles. "Boy X, if you want to play puzzles, go hang up the dress." Him: "uhhhmmm I'm not done with it yet" me: ok, when you're done, come join us at the puzzle table." He lingers in the quiet area, dress on. Puzzles look soo fun though....he waits 5 more mins, takes the dress off and does some puzzles. NO TANTRUM!! About a half hour later, Girl X has the dress on. She has also been informed of the new rule, dress up clothes stay in the quiet area. Him: "is girl x allowed to play toys with the dress on?" Me: "nope". He is watching girl X like a hawk, but NO tantrums! Girl X is joined by Girl Y and also has a dress on. He watches intently. Girl X and Y are done in 10 mins. They put the dresses back. I praise them for doing a good job keeping dress up clothes in the quiet area. HE praises them too! About an hour later, the dress goes back on him. He stays put in quiet area. This time, he's done with it in 5 mins.

Now, if it continues to go this smoothly, the pink dress can stay and he can wear it within the limits of the quiet area. If not, and he regresses, the dress will get "torn" and disappear. If he (and all the other kids) are NOT allowed to wear the dress up stuff outside the quiet area, it will remove the enticement to go about his normal day wearing the pink dress. He wants to do activities and participate, he just wants to do them in a pink dress. But I am hoping this new policy will make the dress seem less attractive to him if he knows he can't wear it and play other things at the same time.

The Burning Question: do you all have a limit on when and where dress up clothes can be worn? I know its best to have most materials available for play at all times.... Do YOU all let kids dress up and stay dressed up while they do other activities? I am dying to know how you all handle dress up clothes! I have always let them play with dress up clothes freely, until the pink dress became an issue.
i've always hated the "area" rule. i DO like "centers" and i think limiting things to certain areas is necessary to an extent (mainly bc if a kid wants to read or rest, they don't want to be surrounded by kids playing Twister). i mean, it would defeat the purpose of having a block area if every single day all of the blocks got carried over to the quiet area (or whatever). but i think being fixated on certain things staying in certain areas and not being allowed to leave those areas not only hinders the kid's imaginations, but causes unnecessary stress for adults. if a kid is playing with blocks and they get an idea like, "hey, we could make this into a crib. lets go get a baby doll," and they're told, "no, the babies have to stay in the housekeeping area." i just have to ask WHY? maybe a kid dresses up like an adult (heels, purse, hat, etc) and decides they want to "go out to dinner" - oh, but they can't have "dinner" in housekeeping bc they have to take off the dress up clothes before they can go to the housekeeping center! i dunno - JMO.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 04:24 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Just keep in mind that these behaviors:

Him: "is girl x allowed to play toys with the dress on?
He is watching girl X like a hawk,
Girl X is joined by Girl Y and also has a dress on. He watches intently
HE praises them too!


are all him DOING the dress.

All of your discussions with him about the rules... all of his listening... all of his interaction and understanding of the new rules... is him DOING the dress. It's all the same to him.

Whether he has it on or not these behaviors are the same to him in the fixation.

So when you look at it from a whole day... count in ANY thing he says or does regarding the dress as the same as if he had it on. Any discussions you or anyone else has with him regarding the dress that are designed to help him understand it or accept it without tantrums to HIM is him doing the dress.

That way you can see what portion of his day he is spending on the fixation.

It's all one and the same... so you have to decide if in totality you can move him into having the same relationship with the toy that everyone else does. Come and go as you please... okay to have it .. okay not to. Okay for someone else to wear it... don't even notice if they do.

Even though today is LESS in time of him wearing the dress that time was balanced out in his brain to how much attention/energy that was given to him regarding the dress. His time on the clock with him having it PLUS the adult/kids involvement/energy about it most likely left him square to what he normally gets out of the dress with his previous behavior.

So over time this must lessen or your interceding is all for nothing.

I'm not saying this because the toy is a pink dress. I would be given you identical advice if it was a purple gorrilla. They are one and the same.

A fixation is a fixation and the human baby doesn't do well in a group/pack when allowed to fixate on something that belongs to the community. The fixation is ... in and of itself.. an escalation. The escalation will move his brain away from what he is there for in the first place... which is to receive good care and be around other human babies in a playing/learning environment.

He can't DO both at the same. He can't have this fixation and receive from your environment what he is there for in the first place. It's impossible for him to have both. You know this because you brought it to us as an issue... because it IS an issue.
Only time will tell I suppose..... I spent maybe 3 minutes talking to him about the new rule. I spent about 5 minutes explaining the rule to other kids. Total time this boy spent "doing" the dress: maybe an hour, tops. Out of a ten hour day, 8 hours of being awake, I'd say it wasn't that bad. He was much easier to deal with today, and I didn't ONCE hear from him "that's mine!" or other girls saying "I want the dress! Boy X isn't sharing!". So I feel pretty good about it. But let's see how it goes....
I think there was a misconception that I am against "disappearing" things, but I'm not. But its a sensitive topic, and I feel strongly about the boy not feeling "punished" or that dresses are "bad". If he was obsessing over a purple gorilla, I'd disapper it for sure, you're right. But its a touchy area, and MAY have psycological implications later in life. I just want to do the right thing. Thanks for your help.
Reply
nannyde 04:39 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Only time will tell I suppose..... I spent maybe 3 minutes talking to him about the new rule. I spent about 5 minutes explaining the rule to other kids. Total time this boy spent "doing" the dress: maybe an hour, tops. Out of a ten hour day, 8 hours of being awake, I'd say it wasn't that bad. He was much easier to deal with today, and I didn't ONCE hear from him "that's mine!" or other girls saying "I want the dress! Boy X isn't sharing!". So I feel pretty good about it. But let's see how it goes....
I think there was a misconception that I am against "disappearing" things, but I'm not. But its a sensitive topic, and I feel strongly about the boy not feeling "punished" or that dresses are "bad". If he was obsessing over a purple gorilla, I'd disapper it for sure, you're right. But its a touchy area, and MAY have psycological implications later in life. I just want to do the right thing. Thanks for your help.
I think you are doing GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is a great improvement. It's "different" so the newness of it may carry him thru for a few days.

You said he was much easier to deal with. YES that's what happens when the leader sets boundaries.... the pack calms down. Boundaries are like big comforter blankets. Children NEED them

He may flitter for a while or pick something else.. only time will tell. The goal is to get him on to doing real play. He may also have a kiddie version of the stages of loss so be prepared for that. If he starts bargaining with you about it just be firm and redirect.

I wonder if his Dad is doing the "not my son"?
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 05:07 PM 05-13-2011
I have NO IDEA what dad thinks. I have only met him once, for 5 mins @ pick-up. Mom does not mention him, I don't ask. The boy sees dad for the weekend about once a month, and is usually out of sorts a little after the visit, but this is true for lots of kids of divorced parents. Excellent question though, wish I knew how dad felt. I want to thank you for pointing out to me that what mom does is moms business and its not my problem. And thanks EVERYONE!!!! But stay tuned! Lol!
Reply
Live and Learn 06:16 PM 05-13-2011
Good job sugar magnolia!
Reply
Live and Learn 06:18 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Boundaries are like big comforter blankets. Children NEED them
I totally agree. Too bad more parents don't get this.
Reply
Lucy 09:26 PM 05-13-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
i've always hated the "area" rule. i DO like "centers" and i think limiting things to certain areas is necessary to an extent (mainly bc if a kid wants to read or rest, they don't want to be surrounded by kids playing Twister). i mean, it would defeat the purpose of having a block area if every single day all of the blocks got carried over to the quiet area (or whatever). but i think being fixated on certain things staying in certain areas and not being allowed to leave those areas not only hinders the kid's imaginations, but causes unnecessary stress for adults. if a kid is playing with blocks and they get an idea like, "hey, we could make this into a crib. lets go get a baby doll," and they're told, "no, the babies have to stay in the housekeeping area." i just have to ask WHY? maybe a kid dresses up like an adult (heels, purse, hat, etc) and decides they want to "go out to dinner" - oh, but they can't have "dinner" in housekeeping bc they have to take off the dress up clothes before they can go to the housekeeping center! i dunno - JMO.
YES! Too many friggin' restrictions. Oy.
Reply
SilverSabre25 05:55 AM 05-14-2011
Originally Posted by QualiTcare:
i've always hated the "area" rule. i DO like "centers" and i think limiting things to certain areas is necessary to an extent (mainly bc if a kid wants to read or rest, they don't want to be surrounded by kids playing Twister). i mean, it would defeat the purpose of having a block area if every single day all of the blocks got carried over to the quiet area (or whatever). but i think being fixated on certain things staying in certain areas and not being allowed to leave those areas not only hinders the kid's imaginations, but causes unnecessary stress for adults. if a kid is playing with blocks and they get an idea like, "hey, we could make this into a crib. lets go get a baby doll," and they're told, "no, the babies have to stay in the housekeeping area." i just have to ask WHY? maybe a kid dresses up like an adult (heels, purse, hat, etc) and decides they want to "go out to dinner" - oh, but they can't have "dinner" in housekeeping bc they have to take off the dress up clothes before they can go to the housekeeping center! i dunno - JMO.
See, I waffle on this a little bit...I don't mind it if the Little People get brought over to the blocks to play in a castle or the dolls get brought into the reading corner because it's "story time" or whatever else...but I really, REALLY mind it when they just pick something up and wander aimlessly across the room to drop it somewhere and then move on to something else. Or they fill a dump truck with legos and drive it to the play kitchen, dump the legos into the sink, and fill the truck with play food that then gets dumped into the kitchen. Stuff like that--*that's* where the gigantic annoying mess comes from, not the purposeful kind of play that can come from things getting combined.

So, for the random-type moving, I enforce the "it stays where it belongs" rule, but if they have a reason for it, I overlook it. I also find that the purposeful kind of mixing of toys tends to lead naturally to the child picking it up on their own, where the other kind of mixing is impossible to enforce clean-up when they're done.
Reply
nannyde 08:13 AM 05-14-2011
Originally Posted by SilverSabre25:
See, I waffle on this a little bit...I don't mind it if the Little People get brought over to the blocks to play in a castle or the dolls get brought into the reading corner because it's "story time" or whatever else...but I really, REALLY mind it when they just pick something up and wander aimlessly across the room to drop it somewhere and then move on to something else. Or they fill a dump truck with legos and drive it to the play kitchen, dump the legos into the sink, and fill the truck with play food that then gets dumped into the kitchen. Stuff like that--*that's* where the gigantic annoying mess comes from, not the purposeful kind of play that can come from things getting combined.

So, for the random-type moving, I enforce the "it stays where it belongs" rule, but if they have a reason for it, I overlook it. I also find that the purposeful kind of mixing of toys tends to lead naturally to the child picking it up on their own, where the other kind of mixing is impossible to enforce clean-up when they're done.
I don't care if they mix toys like that but I have my room divided into littles side and biggins side.

The only rule I have of what must stay is duplo blocks at the duplo table and NOTHING on the tabletop (duplo grids) except for duplos. The tables aren't made anymore so I try to protect them from destruction. They are top heavy and don't need the additional weight. Also when toys are dragged across the grids it creates too much noise.

I don't allow ANY dumping so them filling something up and dumping it into another container doesn't happen here. They would have to take each piece inside the container and put it one by one into the next container.

I don't allow dropping either so they would place whatever they have down onto the floor or back in the container. Clean up here is usually pretty easy. The kids that are nearing two start to balk around that age but we get them thru that and then it's smooth sailing from then on out.
Reply
Qpmomma 07:09 PM 05-14-2011
Kids get fixated on all kinds of things. I have a boy cousin who loved dresses, asked for Barbies for Christmas, carried purses, and call chapstick lipstick. He grew out of it, but we didn't care. He's now a typical boy. And you never would have known he ever wore dresses and makeup.

My daughter has both girl and boy toys and if we have a boy he will have both toys as well. It's natural for kids to be interested in things and to role play. My baby sees me talking on the phone and she mimics it with her play phone. So why wouldn't a boy who sees girls play dress up and put on make up do the same?

This boy may grow out of it. It doesn't mean he's gay or trans. It's great to see such a suppirtive community.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 04:22 PM 05-20-2011
So this week went ok. He was pretty cool about sharing the dress, and not a huge protest over taking it off when he was "done" with it. Some minor whining, but the obsession with the pink dress ITSELF did diminish quite a bit. BUT.....its truly a gender identification issue. He had painted fingernails again (thanks mom), is talking a lot about how he is a princess, how he's going to be a pretty lady when he grows up, Minnie Mouse is better than Mickey, etc.... So a decrease in actual dress wearing, but an increase in discussion of all things girl. Hmmm. We have spent all week basically downplaying these statements. We just say things like. "OK. Its fun to pretend" or "That's nice, go finish your lego castle". I want to be totally neutral and give NO impression of either approval or disapproval. I'm not a psychologist, and its not my place to make judgments, but this boy is who he is and if he's happy, so be it. So the dress stays because he loves it so much, and has hopefully accepted that he can't wear it all day long and HAS to share it. Thanks again to ALL for super advice.
Reply
nannyde 05:25 PM 05-20-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
So this week went ok. He was pretty cool about sharing the dress, and not a huge protest over taking it off when he was "done" with it. Some minor whining, but the obsession with the pink dress ITSELF did diminish quite a bit. BUT.....its truly a gender identification issue. He had painted fingernails again (thanks mom), is talking a lot about how he is a princess, how he's going to be a pretty lady when he grows up, Minnie Mouse is better than Mickey, etc.... So a decrease in actual dress wearing, but an increase in discussion of all things girl. Hmmm. We have spent all week basically downplaying these statements. We just say things like. "OK. Its fun to pretend" or "That's nice, go finish your lego castle". I want to be totally neutral and give NO impression of either approval or disapproval. I'm not a psychologist, and its not my place to make judgments, but this boy is who he is and if he's happy, so be it. So the dress stays because he loves it so much, and has hopefully accepted that he can't wear it all day long and HAS to share it. Thanks again to ALL for super advice.
This sounds about right. I can see that he may be accepting this in a gradual way BUT.. and this is a biggie... he may need to create a storm to balance out the loss he is experiencing by not being able to fixate on it. So be prepared that he may have a meltdown to balance himself out. Just watch for it and get it stopped before he gets to lashing out or harming himself.

I kind of wonder if he is not dressing as a girl at home? I wonder if his Mom isn't having him be a girl at home?????????

If it were my call I would put the dress away and see how he handles it. I would rather escalate it myself and see how it washes out. I would want him to enjoy all of the other things I had to offer. I think the dress takes away from what he is there for.

I would do that whether it was a boy or a girl fixating on the dress. I have a pretty steadfast rule that I don't allow fixation on anything so I don't have kids focusing on one thing. They all can play with all of the other kids and all the toys all the time. Nothing in the environment is singled out day after day. (with the exception of "new" stuff)

Give them a room full of toys and mates and they play equally with everything over a course of a day. I like the BALANCE of that.
Reply
Hunni Bee 08:21 AM 05-21-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
This sounds about right. I can see that he may be accepting this in a gradual way BUT.. and this is a biggie... he may need to create a storm to balance out the loss he is experiencing by not being able to fixate on it. So be prepared that he may have a meltdown to balance himself out. Just watch for it and get it stopped before he gets to lashing out or harming himself.

I kind of wonder if he is not dressing as a girl at home? I wonder if his Mom isn't having him be a girl at home?????????

If it were my call I would put the dress away and see how he handles it. I would rather escalate it myself and see how it washes out. I would want him to enjoy all of the other things I had to offer. I think the dress takes away from what he is there for.

I would do that whether it was a boy or a girl fixating on the dress. I have a pretty steadfast rule that I don't allow fixation on anything so I don't have kids focusing on one thing. They all can play with all of the other kids and all the toys all the time. Nothing in the environment is singled out day after day. (with the exception of "new" stuff)

Give them a room full of toys and mates and they play equally with everything over a course of a day. I like the BALANCE of that.
I do this....when someone fixates on a certain item or activity (has to have possession of it or know where it is at all times, if someone else is using it has to control how they play with, asking about it constantly). It goes away for while. I have a little boy who fixates on the computer. He has to be either using it, looking at it, or being the "computer cop" all the time. When his eight minutes for using it is up, he has a tantrum. When he sees me in the morning his first words to me are, "Can I play the computer?"

So two or three days a week, I leave it off, or we play in the other room. If I allowed him unlimited access to the computer, he would do nothing else.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 11:28 AM 05-23-2011
You know, I try to do the right thing and let this boy sort out his gender issues and allow him to wear the darn pink dress. Boy X had a particularly bad drop-off this morning....screaming, crying, banging on floor, walls. He is in the middle of his tantrum and grabs the dress and starts violently putting it on. RRRRRIIIIIIIIPPPPPPP. Now I've officially had it. "YOU FIX IT NOW!!!! I NEED MY DRESS! I AM A GIRL!!! I AM A PRINCESS and you FIX my dress so I can be a GIRL NOW!! I HATE BOY CLOTHES!!!!" Dress, matching hat, matching gloves and the pink tu-tu are all snatched up and unceremoniously tossed upstairs in the office. EPIC meltdown ensues. 100 percent ignore the 10 mins of crying about how he needs to be a girl. This child needs a shrink. Period. If he is so convinced he is a girl and NEEDS to wear a dress, I can't help him. I am now mad that the girls who played nice with the dress can no longer enjoy it. They are napping now, my husband has just "disappeared" ALL DRESSES. Wear your moms dresses and play make-up with mom at home. I guess CARING about his gender crisis was the wrong thing to do. I try to be sensitive to a childs needs, but obviously, I failed.
Reply
nannyde 12:04 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
You know, I try to do the right thing and let this boy sort out his gender issues and allow him to wear the darn pink dress. Boy X had a particularly bad drop-off this morning....screaming, crying, banging on floor, walls. He is in the middle of his tantrum and grabs the dress and starts violently putting it on. RRRRRIIIIIIIIPPPPPPP. Now I've officially had it. "YOU FIX IT NOW!!!! I NEED MY DRESS! I AM A GIRL!!! I AM A PRINCESS and you FIX my dress so I can be a GIRL NOW!! I HATE BOY CLOTHES!!!!" Dress, matching hat, matching gloves and the pink tu-tu are all snatched up and unceremoniously tossed upstairs in the office. EPIC meltdown ensues. 100 percent ignore the 10 mins of crying about how he needs to be a girl. This child needs a shrink. Period. If he is so convinced he is a girl and NEEDS to wear a dress, I can't help him. I am now mad that the girls who played nice with the dress can no longer enjoy it. They are napping now, my husband has just "disappeared" ALL DRESSES. Wear your moms dresses and play make-up with mom at home. I guess CARING about his gender crisis was the wrong thing to do. I try to be sensitive to a childs needs, but obviously, I failed.
This (see above) is this:


This sounds about right. I can see that he may be accepting this in a gradual way BUT.. and this is a biggie... he may need to create a storm to balance out the loss he is experiencing by not being able to fixate on it. So be prepared that he may have a meltdown to balance himself out. Just watch for it and get it stopped before he gets to lashing out or harming himself.
Reply
nannyde 12:31 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
You know, I try to do the right thing and let this boy sort out his gender issues and allow him to wear the darn pink dress. Boy X had a particularly bad drop-off this morning....screaming, crying, banging on floor, walls. He is in the middle of his tantrum and grabs the dress and starts violently putting it on. RRRRRIIIIIIIIPPPPPPP. Now I've officially had it. "YOU FIX IT NOW!!!! I NEED MY DRESS! I AM A GIRL!!! I AM A PRINCESS and you FIX my dress so I can be a GIRL NOW!! I HATE BOY CLOTHES!!!!" Dress, matching hat, matching gloves and the pink tu-tu are all snatched up and unceremoniously tossed upstairs in the office. EPIC meltdown ensues. 100 percent ignore the 10 mins of crying about how he needs to be a girl. This child needs a shrink. Period. If he is so convinced he is a girl and NEEDS to wear a dress, I can't help him. I am now mad that the girls who played nice with the dress can no longer enjoy it. They are napping now, my husband has just "disappeared" ALL DRESSES. Wear your moms dresses and play make-up with mom at home. I guess CARING about his gender crisis was the wrong thing to do. I try to be sensitive to a childs needs, but obviously, I failed.
Sugar

You did not fail and I'll tell you why..........

You HAD to go thru this to see it with your own two eyes. The only way to understand fixation is to go thru the cycle of it.

Don't worry about the other kids not having the girl clothes. The GROUP is your only chance to heal him. You can't do it. It has to be the other kids.

Part of being a group of humans is to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. They may not have access to the clothes for a while but it's what's best for him right now and he IS them.... he is a piece of them.

You will be surprised (if the Mom keeps sending him) how the whole group dynamic will change once he balances out. They have to take one for the team right now but if you ALL hang in there he should settle in and get to playin toys and doing group things.
Reply
Country Kids 01:30 PM 05-23-2011
This child for some reason is very, very confused. What is sad to me is that the whole group is having to lose the dress up clothes. I would have a meeting with the mom and let her know what is going on. Maybe even return the clothes to the group but not let him play with them till he can learn to behave properly. Also, I can't remember how old he is but what will happen when he goes to school-he will be bullied, laughed at and I can tell you the school won't put up with his "I'm a girl" bit for very long. I think you either need to get very tough on him or explain to the mom that if things to shape up he will have to be termed.
Reply
Live and Learn 02:02 PM 05-23-2011
$$$$ Mom needs to buy a new dress up dress for the group. $$$$

Time to talk to mommy. I worry about this little guy because it sounds like mommy is making matters worse with the nail polish. I bet she let's him dress like a princess at home all of the time.

I think it I time to insist on a trip to the therapist.

His behavior is taking away from the quality of your group.
Reply
nannyde 02:07 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Live and Learn:
$$$$ Mom needs to buy a new dress up dress for the group. $$$$

Time to talk to mommy. I worry about this little guy because it sounds like mommy is making matters worse with the nail polish. I bet she let's him dress like a princess at home all of the time.

I think it I time to insist on a trip to the therapist.

His behavior is taking away from the quality of your group.
NO don't buy another dress. NO money from Mom. NO more discussions.

Take the energy away from the dress and put it onto "go play toys".
Reply
Live and Learn 02:47 PM 05-23-2011
In my home I would say, "Why should the other well behaved children not get to play with a dress up dress?"

This is way, way beyond " I only want to play with the red truck, or drink from the pink cup."...or whatever. The child needs a therapist. Just taking away the dress probably won't fix this lil guy. Poor lil fella.

Even if I didn't immediately replace the dress I still would want to be reimbursed for the damage. If one my kiddos broke something at someone's house I would offer to pay. That is just how I was raised.
Reply
daycare 02:55 PM 05-23-2011
kids break things all the time. It sounds like this child has some deep confusion in his life and of course has no coping skills of any kind. I would just talk to the parent and let her know what happened. I would not ask for replacement. This poor kid seems to be going through some really hard times and just doesn't know what to do.

Just go on about your day and let him be him...whatever that may be. If he feels comfortable being a girl, then let him. Of course the other kids may see this as wrong, and you should let them feel the way that they do too.

I feel bad for you that you are having to go through this and alone. You really need some parent help and can only get it if you ask them for it.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 04:03 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by nannyde:
Sugar

You did not fail and I'll tell you why..........

You HAD to go thru this to see it with your own two eyes. The only way to understand fixation is to go thru the cycle of it.

Don't worry about the other kids not having the girl clothes. The GROUP is your only chance to heal him. You can't do it. It has to be the other kids.

Part of being a group of humans is to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. They may not have access to the clothes for a while but it's what's best for him right now and he IS them.... he is a piece of them.

You will be surprised (if the Mom keeps sending him) how the whole group dynamic will change once he balances out. They have to take one for the team right now but if you ALL hang in there he should settle in and get to playin toys and doing group things.
I dunno. I definately feel like a huge failure. I have disappeared stuff several times before and it NEVER bothered me. But THIS whole episode bothers me. A lot. I totally deserve an "I told ya so." I talked to mom and told her what happened. She supports my decision. She says that, but the next time I see him with painted pink finger nails, I'm going to ask her what happened to her support. Bummed. Very bummed. For him, for me, for all the kids. Sigh. Whodathunk a simple dress could cause so much upheaveal in one boys mind. Epic Fail. Shoulda listened to you last week. .... I screwed up.
Reply
daycare 04:08 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I dunno. I definately feel like a huge failure. I have disappeared stuff several times before and it NEVER bothered me. But THIS whole episode bothers me. A lot. I totally deserve an "I told ya so." I talked to mom and told her what happened. She supports my decision. She says that, but the next time I see him with painted pink finger nails, I'm going to ask her what happened to her support. Bummed. Very bummed. For him, for me, for all the kids. Sigh. Whodathunk a simple dress could cause so much upheaveal in one boys mind. Epic Fail. Shoulda listened to you last week. .... I screwed up.
sorry to sound rude, but I am so lost. what is wrong with pink toe nails or fingernails?
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 04:13 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Live and Learn:
In my home I would say, "Why should the other well behaved children not get to play with a dress up dress?"

This is way, way beyond " I only want to play with the red truck, or drink from the pink cup."...or whatever. The child needs a therapist. Just taking away the dress probably won't fix this lil guy. Poor lil fella.

Even if I didn't immediately replace the dress I still would want to be reimbursed for the damage. If one my kiddos broke something at someone's house I would offer to pay. That is just how I was raised.
"Like".
It was only 5 bucks. Don't care about that. But you are right, it goes way beyond simple fixation. I agree, he needs professional help.
Reply
nannyde 05:41 PM 05-23-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
I dunno. I definately feel like a huge failure. I have disappeared stuff several times before and it NEVER bothered me. But THIS whole episode bothers me. A lot. I totally deserve an "I told ya so." I talked to mom and told her what happened. She supports my decision. She says that, but the next time I see him with painted pink finger nails, I'm going to ask her what happened to her support. Bummed. Very bummed. For him, for me, for all the kids. Sigh. Whodathunk a simple dress could cause so much upheaveal in one boys mind. Epic Fail. Shoulda listened to you last week. .... I screwed up.
Nah Shug

You don't come into this with super powers. You are seeing something that doesn't occur that much in kid population. You could go your whole career and never see it to this extent.

The only reason I recognize it is that I've seen enough kids over many years who show pieces of what you are describing and I see how it affects them and THE GROUP. I've seen that allowing X leads to Y and the group suffers in Z way. I know the cost to the adult who is trying to be fair and "child led".

If you want to understand fixation you have to understand anxiety in kids. You also have to see where attention and confirmation comes from the adults. Believe it when I say that MOST of the anxiety around "things" are given to the child by the parents early in their infancy and endorsed until it becomes something that directly affects their activities of daily living.

I have a suspicion that the Mom is playing baby and playing baby girl with him at home. I would also guess that it is something that pisses the Dad off so the Mom went for it. The kid realizes that the adults acted "high strung" about it with him and he latched onto it. Mom doing it to make Dad mad and Dad reacting mad at mom. These are one and the same to the kid.

I know it sounds NUTS but there is a chance that this isn't about gender but about control and anxiety. He may have taken this on because it is so extreme that it matches his anxiety.

There's a great episode on the Dog Whisperer you should watch. It's about a dog that is addicted to chewing rocks. The way Cesar explains it is very interesting and the way the dog is worked with within Cesars pack will give you some ideas of why you really need the GROUP of kids to help heal him or at least help make him more livable. Watch the whole thing on both if you can:

start at 1:30 about Punkin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1w-g9kF19I&NR=1


second half with the pack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZISyAx6oug&NR=1
Reply
Country Kids 06:05 PM 05-23-2011
I had asked early on in the original post if this mom was allowing it at home and if so did she really want a girl so why not encourage him to be one! Especially if she allows the nail painting and such. I have never seen a little boy to this extreme so there has to be something going on besides what is going on at childcare.

What do the other parents of the other children think. I would be afraid of clients wanting to start to leave if he is this obsessed by it and especially if he is throwing tantrums over "the dress". I would be very careful with this because he could start having you lose more than the money you invest into the dress.
Reply
nannyde 04:33 AM 05-24-2011
http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/b...-gender-secret
Reply
countrymom 06:13 AM 05-24-2011
there is some pyschological thing going on here. I would start telling mom over and over again that he keeps telling everyone that he's a girl, she needs to get it thru her thick head that she is wrecking him. I would start reminding him that he's a boy, this is what boys do, why doesn't he play with the boys. I know its stereo typing the child but this boy really needs help.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 10:43 AM 05-24-2011
Love this article! Hate this article! Ahhhhhhh... Just kidding. Its VERY insightful, and I do like the idea of all toys and play things at school being "gender-less". But the article makes me feel like returning the dresses and allowing him to be "himself". But I THINK the message you're sending me though, is its a PARENTING issue....not mine. I do like the article, but now I feel even more conflicted. Today, our first pink-dress-free day, is going just super. Minor whining got a "you ripped it, its gone" response, and he moved on. Feel relieved. Thanks Nannyde.
Reply
nannyde 11:14 AM 05-24-2011
Originally Posted by Sugar Magnolia:
Love this article! Hate this article! Ahhhhhhh... Just kidding. Its VERY insightful, and I do like the idea of all toys and play things at school being "gender-less". But the article makes me feel like returning the dresses and allowing him to be "himself". But I THINK the message you're sending me though, is its a PARENTING issue....not mine. I do like the article, but now I feel even more conflicted. Today, our first pink-dress-free day, is going just super. Minor whining got a "you ripped it, its gone" response, and he moved on. Feel relieved. Thanks Nannyde.
LOL shug

Yes I'm showing you that there are crazy parents out there. The ones in the article made me laugh and think of you.

My guess is the Mama wanted a girl... by the time she got boy two she started her gender fixation... by the time she got THIRD SON she decided to escalate it even further by not revealing he was a girl.

She's getting her crazy on and making it look like there's something special.

Did you watch the cesar video? There are some really good takeaways on that one. Of course it's dog psychology but there are some really good points that can be applied to your situation.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 11:27 AM 05-24-2011
Nannyde, no I haven't watched it yet, my 2007 blackberry isn't capable! Lol! I will watch on my pc over the weekend though. I did like what you said about the group healing him. This is very appealing to me. Kids are very much like a "pack" and I appreciate your thinking of me by sending the Dog Wisperer link! Can't wait to watch it!
Reply
Unregistered 08:55 PM 06-03-2011
Hey everyone, I'm sorry to just pop in as an unregistered/unknown person here, but I have to say.. I am a provider also with a small group of kids, I'm also a mother, I'm also someone who knows people that have transgender kids, and someone who is friends with transgender adults. If the child is transgender, there is nothing the mother did, can do, will do, etc, to change it. It sounds as if he is and I think he should just be supported. Teaching him to repress it like you said before Sugar is just going to cause major issues throughout his life, and if his mom is supporting him, good for her! You all make a big difference in these kids' lives - I don't have anything specific to suggest on the whole dress situation, but I do think the whole thing is definitely a sensitive subject and that he should be supported in whatever way he (or she) can be. To be afraid you would lose business over allowing a child to be themselves is a shame, it is our jobs to support children to grow in environment where they feel safe to be who they are so if someone wants to leave over that, I would rather have them leave. I know I'm a little late on this, but when I saw it I couldn't help but want to respond.. Best wishes on this, maybe this article could shed a little light..

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3088298&page=1
Reply
WImom 04:41 AM 06-04-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hey everyone, I'm sorry to just pop in as an unregistered/unknown person here, but I have to say.. I am a provider also with a small group of kids, I'm also a mother, I'm also someone who knows people that have transgender kids, and someone who is friends with transgender adults. If the child is transgender, there is nothing the mother did, can do, will do, etc, to change it. It sounds as if he is and I think he should just be supported. Teaching him to repress it like you said before Sugar is just going to cause major issues throughout his life, and if his mom is supporting him, good for her! You all make a big difference in these kids' lives - I don't have anything specific to suggest on the whole dress situation, but I do think the whole thing is definitely a sensitive subject and that he should be supported in whatever way he (or she) can be. To be afraid you would lose business over allowing a child to be themselves is a shame, it is our jobs to support children to grow in environment where they feel safe to be who they are so if someone wants to leave over that, I would rather have them leave. I know I'm a little late on this, but when I saw it I couldn't help but want to respond.. Best wishes on this, maybe this article could shed a little light..

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3088298&page=1
I have to totally agree on this. I wasn't sure how to word it so I never posted anything but you said what I've been thinking. I feel mom also needs to get him into see someone that can help him in the long run because when he gets to school he is going to need it.
Reply
nannyde 04:47 AM 06-04-2011
Originally Posted by Unregistered:
Hey everyone, I'm sorry to just pop in as an unregistered/unknown person here, but I have to say.. I am a provider also with a small group of kids, I'm also a mother, I'm also someone who knows people that have transgender kids, and someone who is friends with transgender adults. If the child is transgender, there is nothing the mother did, can do, will do, etc, to change it. It sounds as if he is and I think he should just be supported. Teaching him to repress it like you said before Sugar is just going to cause major issues throughout his life, and if his mom is supporting him, good for her! You all make a big difference in these kids' lives - I don't have anything specific to suggest on the whole dress situation, but I do think the whole thing is definitely a sensitive subject and that he should be supported in whatever way he (or she) can be. To be afraid you would lose business over allowing a child to be themselves is a shame, it is our jobs to support children to grow in environment where they feel safe to be who they are so if someone wants to leave over that, I would rather have them leave. I know I'm a little late on this, but when I saw it I couldn't help but want to respond.. Best wishes on this, maybe this article could shed a little light..

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3088298&page=1
I don't think Shug had a problem with him being transgendered (if that's what he is). I think she had a problem on him bogarting the pink dress every day all day and setting his happy on the dress up stuff.

Doesn't matter if it was a boy or a girl or a boy who wants to be a girl doing that. It doesn't work for group care.
Reply
Sugar Magnolia 06:52 AM 06-04-2011
If the boy is transgender, I'm suppoertive of that, but Nannyde hit the nail on the head. It is, actually WAS, a control issue and an obsession that simply got out of control.
For those following the saga, here's more info. Mom takes Boy X and brother and grandparents to Disney World. The go into a gift shop first to buy him a toy he can hold in the park. He sees a display of Cinderella, etc dresses. He WANTS the dress. Mom says no! A 2 hour meltdown ensues. So she says to me "guess you were right that this is not a good obsession, no more dresses." No kidding, 3 days later, he's got fresh nail polish on. So MOM is NOT helping him! IMO. She is creating more confusion. With the dresses being gone, the obsession disappeared when the dresses did, but "I'm a girl, I am a pretty princess" talk has ramped way up. But he's doing ok.
Nannyde: LOVED the videos!! Very applicable.
Reply
Unregistered 06:06 PM 06-04-2011
I understand that the issue about the dress can be separate, but the talk about the nail polish, the "I'm a girl" stuff and all that does have directly to do with his gender identity, and that is not going to go away by being ignored or having "girly" things thrown away/inaccessible to him etc. So, with dresses being gone, expect him to want to express himself in other ways, and all I'm saying is, I think he should be allowed to do so (and yes, guided towards a healthy and comfortable way of doing it than obsessive hoarding of certain toys, etc). But I think the dress thing, with it being so obvious that he seems to identify as a girl, is a matter of - he wants to feel like/be seen as a girl all day, its not JUST a toy for him, its him trying to express his identity.. So, yes more complicated than just any old toy, no he shouldn't be allowed to hoard any one toy or dress up item, but maybe he needs to be given a way to have that feeling fulfilled so that he can play like all the rest of the kids who aren't struggling to be seen as how they feel inside.
Reply
Tags:developmental - support, escalation, fixation, obsession, pink. gender confusion
Reply Up