How Much Self Control Would You Expect?

[Heidi]

From a(newly) 5 year old...

Whining at the table over some minor thing (I can't even remember)

warned...if you are whining, that shows me you are tired. If you are tired, you will need to nap this afternoon (vs. watching tv), so that you can have a fun night with your family.

whining continues...

Well, that shows me you're tired. Finish your lunch and then it will be naptime.

Crying louder.

K...you need to stop or leave the table (wait.....) nope....getting louder and wailing now instead..."I waaannntt TV...I waaaant TV"

K...you need to leave the table now.


nooooo...

I litterally just wrestled a 65 lb 5 yo from the table (I tried to take his hand instead, but he held on to the picnic table, dragging it....with 2 other kids at it still trying to eat...it's kid size plastic)

I more or less carried him down the stairs to the nap room, pulled out his mat and pillow, and walked away. He screamed "I want tv" and "DAAAAADDDY" for about 10 minutes, then got quiet (yes, I am checking on him!)

Does anyone have any sage advice here? Yes, except term him...because that is already a strong possibility for a multitude of reasons. But, would you have handled this another way?

[B Lou]

I don't do the whining bit either. At my daycare if the child is whining or crying for no reason then I have a sitting spot where they are allowed to whin and cry all they want. But they are not allowed to leave that spot until they are done. I leave that up to them. They can sit there for alittle while or all day.(usually lasts less than 5 min)
If they are at the lunch table and they start then the same rule applies. Hopefully they fish before lunch is over
As for not letting him watch the TV, I agree with what you have done.

[Ariana]

I'm not sure that punishing with tv is really related to the whining so it's not a natural consequence. Maybe if he's whining at the table he gets to eat by himself in another room? This is what I've done in the past with kids who can't sit with the group and be respectable. This way he will make the natural connection between whining/being disrespectful and eating alone.

Whining is really hard to break when it gets rewarded at home so good luck!

[countrymom]

would have done the same thing. I have a feeling that you would have a hard time no matter what you have done.

I don't agree with the nautral consequence comment. Whining to me does symbolize tired and thus nap time. What would you suggest the natural consequence of whining be?

I would have done the same thing. Bet he doesn't try these antics again, and he likely really does need a nap. Even big people get whiney and need a nap.

[Heidi]

funny....I checked on him 5 or 6 minutes after he got quiet, and he was fast asleep!

[itlw8]

He found your button and it esculated further than you or he wanted it to

I do think the end result was not warrented for the original offence. But we are human and well all make mistakes. We learn from them for next time.

5 yr olds are tough cookies. And yes I expect whining from them even though they have not done it in a few years. They want to be independant but yet want to stay little.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by Ariana

I'm not sure that punishing with tv is really related to the whining so it's not a natural consequence. Maybe if he's whining at the table he gets to eat by himself in another room? This is what I've done in the past with kids who can't sit with the group and be respectable. This way he will make the natural connection between whining/being disrespectful and eating alone.

Whining is really hard to break when it gets rewarded at home so good luck!

nah, we don't eat in another room here. We eat at the table. My house is not that big, and anyway I could be cited if I let a child eat out of my line of site.

I get what you're saying about the natural consequence. To me, though, it was a natural consequence...sort of. Watching TV at nap vs. taking an actual nap like the littles is a privilege of being older. Whining, then escalating when he was reminded (kindly) that it's not appropriate means he looses that privilege.

If I told mom he was whining, she would IMMEDIATELY go to "well, he MUST be tired then". Because, he is always tired, or hungry, or has a headache, or SOMETHING when he acts out.

This time, apparently she would have been right, because he was asleep in 5 minutes. He just woke up, and he's SMILING!!!!! lol

Have a good weekend Ariana

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by itlw8

He found your button and it esculated further than you or he wanted it to

I do think the end result was not warrented for the original offence. But we are human and well all make mistakes. We learn from them for next time.

5 yr olds are tough cookies. And yes I expect whining from them even though they have not done it in a few years. They want to be independant but yet want to stay little.

I don't know....the napping isn't really a punishment (honestly, I would love to be punished like that on a Friday afternoon...lol) . The loss of TV time is definately a consequence, maybe not a "natural" one, but not exactly punitive either.

I'd have preferred he just have made a little effort to stop the whining in the first place, because the reason for it was because he wanted something he could not have. When I say whining, it was more like folding-the-arms, pouting, and wailing, not just using a whiney voice to ask for something. It's just part of the bullying behavior he goes to to get his way.

[Hunni Bee]

I think it was warranted.

Not all consequences have to be "natural", IMO. A consequence is just the unpleasant repercussion of unacceptable behavior. The consequence of acting/talking like a baby for no reason and when capable of doing otherwise, is being treated like a baby. The consequence of ruining other people's lunch is leaving the table. The consequence of not doing as asked is losing privileges.

Made sense to me, especially with a 5 year old.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Hunni Bee

I think it was warranted.

Not all consequences have to be "natural", IMO. A consequence is just the unpleasant repercussion of unacceptable behavior. The consequence of acting/talking like a baby for no reason and when capable of doing otherwise, is being treated like a baby. The consequence of ruining other people's lunch is leaving the table. The consequence of not doing as asked is losing privileges.

Made sense to me, especially with a 5 year old.

I agree not all consequences have to be natural. There are times that nature does not always take its course.

[Heidi]

Thanks everyone for your input!

Obviously, I would like to avoid these situations to begin with, but this is not the first time similar things have happened, and as long as he's here, probably not the last. I just need to decide how much time is left. It's either 2 weeks or the whole summer.

I try very hard to be consistent, set fair expectations, and follow through. Sometimes that is not enough though. I will not walk on egg shells around him though to avoid unpleasant behavior. I think he's already gotten too much of that in his life, to be honest.

It's a life skill for him to learn that not only do you not always get what you want, but that sometimes you have to EXEPT that you can't always get what you want, and while you are certainly entitled to your feelings, the whole world doesn't necessarily give fig about what those feelings are!!! I mean that in the most loving way, really....:

[christinaskids]

I think you did the right thing. Obviously he was tired and was acting out because of that. I dont think a punishment was necessary but taking care of the root of the problem was which you did. Its not like a five year old is going to have a ton of self control when they are overly tired

[nothingwithoutjoy]

Another perspective to consider--if nap is a punishment, it leads to kids not wanting to nap. If nap is "ah, it's nap time! Won't that feel good!," it's easier for kids to want to go.

I agree that whining might well mean he's tired. But I would just say what I expect, empathize with the feeling (not the behavior), and leave it at that. For ex: "It sounds like you are really tired today. Thank goodness it's almost time for nap! I can hear that you really want...x. I'd like to talk with you about it, but I don't like whining. Please talk to me in your regular voice."