Should I Report This To CPS???

[Lilbutterflie]

For those who may remember some of my previous posts, two of my dck's have been gone for 6 weeks to be with their out-of-state father. He was supposed to pay for them to fly back with him, and he informed DCM last week that he could not afford it. She ended up reluctantly paying for all of them to fly back. DCD also does not pay child support.

Anyway, they started back today; they flew in yesterday morning. I was warned by DCM that they have been acting out, fighting, calling names, and no longer using manners. I expect about a week to re-adjust, so I knew today would be a little difficult anyway! Well, I notice both kids look a little skinny. Breakfast time, both of them eat like their breakfast will be taken away from them! I chalk it up to growth spurts for both of them. Early lunch comes around and 3 yo dcg is shoving food in her mouth again! Asks for seconds, eats all of it. She is usually my SLOWEST eater. So much so, that I have to set the timer at 40 minutes b/c she'll sit there forever!!! She has been quiet all day long, keeping to herself. NOT like her at all, not even on her very first day with me! She is outgoing, energetic, carefree, bubbly, etc... She eats TWO snacks at 2:30, and is asking for dinner by 3:30pm. I gave her some bread and told her that her mom was picking her up soon to feed her dinner. The MOMENT she sees mom she says "Mommy! You're here! Now you can take me home and feed me dinner!!" That's when mom tells me she's been eating everything put in front of her since she's been back; and she lost 5 pounds since going to be with her dad. Almost 15% of her body weight! I know some of you may say maybe she didn't eat with her dad b/c she wanted to come home, or didn't adjust well. That's NOT like her though! She could go with a complete stranger and be happy about it normally! I just don't know what to think of this. As an obligated reporter, should I be calling CPS, even though he's out of state & won't have them again for many months?
Any advice would be appreciated! Thanks!

[nikia]

Did u talk to mom about this anymore than her saying she lost 5 pounds and is eating like crazy? Is mom worried I guess is more my question. Did dcg talk about her visit at all? I feel like it should be reported but it should be by mom and lawyers. Do u know what I mean? Like it will get sticky because of custody. My friend was in a similar situation and she called on her ex which then stopped all future visits until another hearing hers was neglect and drug use by her ex so I don't know if the drug use made a difference. Sorry I'm not helping much. These situations are so hard.

[SilverSabre25]

Um...wow! That's all I can say. There are some definite red flags there, I'd say. I don't think that you can/should report it to CPS, but I *do* think that perhaps mom should talk to her lawyers (and maybe a child psychiatrist) and they should have some talks with the kids about their visit with dad. How old is the other kid?

[SilverSabre25]

You know what...I keep thinking and thinking about this, and while I still don't think that CPS is the right move, I'm worried about some of what you say about the little girl's behavior. I don't want to say anything because I could be wrong (probably am wrong) but to go from being happy, bubbly, and carefree, to being quiet and withdrawn just really sends up a red flag for me.

I would ask mom tomorrow if you guys can schedule a conference, without the kids, to sit down and have a chat--and have the conference be as soon as possible. Tell her that you're concerned about the change in the kids, the behavior (the acting out, etc), and especially the change in dcg's behavior. See what she says. She might just need someone to validate her concerns. She might be in complete denial. But something happened. Something changed that little girl...and while it could just be being hungry for six weeks or living on a crappy diet, it could be something more. Three year olds don't change that drastically in six weeks.

I really think that she needs to contact her lawyers and ask what she can do. I think that custody arrangement needs revisited...just the fact that dad didn't have the money to bring the kids back and doesn't pay child support could be enough. I would say that the kids should be checked out by a doctor, too...just in case. And perhaps a child psychiatrist.

And if mom blows off your concerns? THEN I would contact CPS and see what they say.

[Lilbutterflie]

Yeah, I told DCM I felt it was horrible that she lost that much weight. DCM just nodded her head and looked herself like she could cry so I didn't push that subject further. I will bring it up again tomorrow and ask her point blank if she thinks their father was withholding food or worse while over there.
I have also urged her to take him back to court to fight for child support (the initial papers she signed stated he did not have to). I also brought up that I was concerned b/c dcg was so quiet today and withdrawn. DCM looked concerned, again like she might cry, but didn't say anything. I didn't push it, but I will bring it up again.
Thanks for your opinions thus far, keep them coming!

[GretasLittleFriends]

Two words... Mandatory Reporter

Even if the mom seemed as though she was going to cry, I'd discuss this straight to the point with her. I certainly wouldn't want to have a suspicion and not do something about it, then find out later I should have listened to my gut and find out that by not doing anything that only had the child/ren subjected to worse treatment.

[Lilbutterflie]

UPDATE: First words out of dcg's mouth today were "Hi! Can we have some cereal now?" She is still hungry as ever (she's had two huge bowls of cereal thus far); but her behavior seems back to normal so far. Bubbly & energetic. EXCEPT when she was eating and the rest of the kids and I were making these funny noises with our mouths; I asked her if she wanted to try & she looked at me as stern as could be and said "I'M EATING." She was dead serious... nothing was going to keep her from eating!
I'm planning on talking to mom at pickup today, telling her point blank that I think something happened over there and that I am a mandated reporter. She said that she was going to be calling dad last night so I'll see if she confronted him about her losing 5 pounds.

[Crystal]

It couldn't hurt to contact CPS and ask them if this should be reported. They'll tell you EXACTLY what you need to do.

Good luck, i hope everything is okay with the little girl.

Please keep us posted.

[countrymom]

hmm, I think something happened when they were there. I would start asking the kids, you would be amazed what they will tell you but not their mom. Mom needs to talk to the lawyer but most important she needs to start documenting. First, I wouldn't let them leave the state knowing that dad couldn't afford to send them back, that alone would be a red flag.

[TGT09]

WOW! SOMETHING happened, DCM should be acknowledging that. Whether it be witholding food (can't afford food) or something worse. A child doesn't become withdrawn for no reason (I have sexual abuse on the brain so please excuse me). I am about to become a foster parent along with daycare, my heart says, talk with mom and if she does nothing or shows no concern then call CPS. YOU are possibly the only person that will stick up for dcg!!!!!!!!!

[TGT09]

I also understand everyone else's lack of wanting to call CPS...it can be scary to accuse someone! It could even lose you a daycare child but honestly, I feel like that's what needs to be done even after talking to mom. This child has experienced SOMETHING. There are some serious red flags here and if this were my dcg, I would have already called dcm AND cps! I agree with pp that says if he couldn't afford to fly them home (knowing how many months ago that he was going to have to) then he probably wasn't feeding them on a normal basis or not enough! This is scary and I really feel for you that you've been put in this position! Out of everything I've read on here, foster classes, etc.....this is one big serious situation! NO child should be losing 5 lbs in 6 weeks! It's also possible that if you don't call and she ends up at the Ped for something that THEY will call!

[Crystal]

While I agree that something may have happened, it is also possible that the little girl just didn't feel comfortable being with dad. If he lives far enough away that they have to fly to visit, then perhaps she doesn't know her father very well, missed Mommy very much and didn't eat.

I'd tread lightly, seeing as how she is back with Mom and not in imminent danger. Call CPS, or even your licensing worker, and get their input. They will tell you the appropriate course of action.

Continue to talk to Mom, ask her her feelings on the subject. I am sure she will be grateful that you are looking out for the best interests of her child and may even welcome the dialouque.

[QualiTcare]

i would definitely talk to the mom. it sounds like she's not thrilled about them going with their dad, but doesn't have a choice because it's ordered by the court. of course, if that's the case - it might seem like she's just trying to "get back at dad" because she's angry if she reports him. she may even WELCOME him being reported by someone else.

how old is the other child? i imagine it would be hard to investigate since the kids are no longer with him and if the 3 year old is the best source they have.

i'd urge her to take the 3 year old to the doctor asap so the weight loss can be documented.

[DBug]

I really feel for you -- I know how scary it is to know that there's a good chance something bad happened, but to not have any undeniable proof!

I would call CPS too (CAS for us Canucks ), and just ask if there's reason for concern, giving all the reasons you gave us. I would also be upfront with dc mom, and let her know I'd be calling. Like a pp said, she might need some back-up with her suspicions too.

I would be very careful though, exactly how you talk to dcg about it. Don't ask any leading yes/no questions. Open-ended questions would be fine, just make sure you don't go anywhere near planting ideas in her mind. I would hate for the dad to honestly be guilty of something and for it to be thrown out of court on a technicality because someone may have affected the dcg's testimony, kwim?

[Lilbutterflie]

Originally Posted by Crystal

While I agree that something may have happened, it is also possible that the little girl just didn't feel comfortable being with dad. If he lives far enough away that they have to fly to visit, then perhaps she doesn't know her father very well, missed Mommy very much and didn't eat.

I'd tread lightly, seeing as how she is back with Mom and not in imminent danger. Call CPS, or even your licensing worker, and get their input. They will tell you the appropriate course of action.

Continue to talk to Mom, ask her her feelings on the subject. I am sure she will be grateful that you are looking out for the best interests of her child and may even welcome the dialouque.

This is what my DH said when I talked to him about it. He thinks she was just "missing home and mommy", so she didn't eat. Well, it's just not like her to be this way. Her very first day with me, she was as comfortable as can be, no adjustment period whatsoever. She would go with a stranger if she was asked to, she waves and talks to anyone and everyone she comes in contact with. She also just spent a week with him in July, so there was only two and a half months of not seeing him.
I talked to both kids this morning at separate times, all alone, and both told me similar stories. They mostly would eat PB&J for breakfast. When asked about dinner, they said sometimes they did not have dinner. Just snacks. When asked if they were ever hungry with daddy, or if they got enough to eat; dcb said he always got enough to eat while dcg said "No, not with daddy. Only at Mommy's house, I get to eat a lot at Mommy's house." Well, dcb is 4 1/2, dcg is 3 1/2; so their perception of "breakfast, lunch and dinner" is not always accurate to the appropriate times of day. I don't really think I can make assumptions about what they told me. What I DO know is that there was some kind of neglect... the poor girl's rib cage is felt through her shirt when you hug her for goodness sake!
As I speak, she is role-playing with the other kids, she is playing a kitten who is hungry and eating out of a bowl.

[Blackcat31]

I'm not sure how CPS is for other but where I live, our intake person is wonderful and when I have concerns or see red flags regarding children I care for I call. I just say, "Something has me a bit concerned and I just want you to document it in case it needs to be referenced later." Then they document it and keep it in a file and I also document it as well.

However, I would still discuss it with DCM as other poster's have stated. Good luck....These are the things that make being a daycare provider tough.

[Lilbutterflie]

DCM just called from work. She has the same concerns I do. I also told her about the role-playing on hunger that I have noticed this morning on more than one occasion. She actually scolded her doll for "eating too much dinner!!"

I told her I was going to call CPS and see if this is reportable. She said she was going to call her Pediatrician to see what he said. She called me back right away and said she has an appt to see her Dr. first thing tomorrow morning. DCM is worried that if I call CPS it will somehow reflect on her since she cares for them most of the time. I told her the report would ONLY be on him. She then asked if I would hold off making that call until we could see exactly how much weight she has lost according to their scales (she was weighed in at the Dr.'s office right before she left to go see DCD). I agreed, plus if the Dr. feels there has been abuse or neglect, he will also be reporting it too; so I feel better about holding off. UGH. What a terrible situation. And all in my 2nd year of daycare!

Thanks everyone for your support and advice. It's greatly appreciated!

[DCMomOf3]

Please keep us updated! I feel really badly for the little girl and her mother.

[TGT09]

Oh good, it sounds like mom is on her toes about it! I'm glad because it's a sticky, tough situation! I didn't mean any harm in my posts so I hope you didn't take it that way. I just know if it were me that I would hate myself forever if something happened to the little girl and I never stuck up for her. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this but at least dcm is on the same page as you.

[laundrymom]

I wouldn't call CPA. I would journal everything. Mom is getting things moving. I would write everything down. Food amounts conversations. Behaviors. So mom has leg to stand on. No more suestions though that could be considered coaching. Only write what they tell u and never ask them to just let them talk on their own. My heart aches for all of u

[WImom]

Glad to see mom is doing everything she can. Keep us updated. Poor little girl. I wonder if the dad only let the boy eat?

I have gone through this, too (sexual abuse in this case). Only I really should have reported what I noticed, but was really inexperienced in this type of thing. The child I'm talking about does some really really weird things and seems developmentally behind, and role plays sometimes in ways no other 3 yr old does, and one time she was pretending something and what she did really concerned me for a child her age. Then she told me something that made me wonder. I immediately called mom (who was not with this guy anymore). Apparently I should have called CPS but because I didn't have any REAL proof and didn't know what I was supposed to do, I didn't. Well a year later he's on trial, but without any proof or reports from me, and dcg won't talk about it, he may get off. Someone from CPS called a few weeks ago and really let me have it, saying it was my fault if he won, and on and on. I even wondered if I would end up in court over not reporting.
So for your own sake, if nothing else, I would call CPS and ask if it's anything I should report. I did ask them about another child later, and they told me exactly what I should do (which in that case they said to just keep an eye on it, but otherwise not worry about it) It was so nice to be able to leave it in their hands without causing problems for the dad if it wasn't anything that needed reported.
Keep us posted. I am a member but signed out because of the content of my post.

[Lilbutterflie]

UPDATE: DCG went to her pediatrician today. She had only lost 2 pounds according to their scale. The doctor said it was not something to be concerned about and that it wasn't reportable. I wonder though... since she's been eating NONSTOP for 3 whole days how much she's already gained?! I kid you not, she's been eating two of every meal, and snacks every hour!! Oh well.

Even still, with her behavior lately I still think I will call just so that it can at least be documented.

Unregisterd: thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry that this happened to you, AND that you were chewed out by CPS for this! It's bad enough that you feel guilty, ya know? It's b/c of you that I'm still going to call to see what they say. Thanks.

[Lilbutterflie]

I called CPS to see if it was reportable, and she said it's a borderline case, so it's going in the "future risk" file. She got a whole lot of info from me, so I really do think they will be investigating it.

[SilverSabre25]

Good; I'm glad that you and DCM are on top of it *and* that CPS was willing to take the information.

How's DCG's eating and behavior today?

[TGT09]

Originally Posted by Lilbutterflie

I called CPS to see if it was reportable, and she said it's a borderline case, so it's going in the "future risk" file. She got a whole lot of info from me, so I really do think they will be investigating it.

Good! I'm sure it at least feels good to not shoulder ALL the responsibility now.

[Lilbutterflie]

She's a little better today, still ate two portions of breakfast (two large banana & chocolate chip muffins). At lunch, she had a mini breakdown b/c it wasn't one of her favorite lunches (it was alphabet soup with crackers). She ate a few bites and all of her crackers, but that was it. It's hard, b/c my usual rule is you eat what you are given and if it's not your favorite you can make up for it on your next snack or meal. I'm tempted to just give her whatever she asks for b/c I want her to eat; but I decided to stick to my rule. It's not that she didn't LIKE the soup, she likes it just fine. It's just not her favorite.
Her behavior is still different, she's not communicating well and shuts down really easy.

[SilverSabre25]

I still think she needs to be evaluated further by a doctor and a therapist. Sexual abuse (or at least physical/verbal/emotional) abuse is on my mind. Has mom or is mom going to talk to her lawyers?

[countrymom]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

I still think she needs to be evaluated further by a doctor and a therapist. Sexual abuse (or at least physical/verbal/emotional) abuse is on my mind. Has mom or is mom going to talk to her lawyers?

this is what I keep thinking too, like a nagging feeling.

[TGT09]

Speaking of CPS, they were just called on my SIL and are due to show up at 4 today. What a lovely family I married into. My DH appears to be the only sane one!

[Lilbutterflie]

Originally Posted by SilverSabre25

I still think she needs to be evaluated further by a doctor and a therapist. Sexual abuse (or at least physical/verbal/emotional) abuse is on my mind. Has mom or is mom going to talk to her lawyers?

Yup, my thoughts exactly. Mom is on the fence on this one... the doctor seemed to convince her this morning that there was nothing to worry about. My argument to mom was that it's more than just losing two pounds (which I pointed out to her, was after 3 days of eating nonstop), her behavior really worries me. Mom talked to her husband, their step-dad, and they both are worried that if they go forward with possibly taking him to court for full custody, with an accusation of neglect or abuse, the kids will end up resenting them in the future. I told her that may be the case, BUT you have to put them first... and if you are even the slightest bit suspicious, like I am, that he is neglecting or abusing them, you have to stick up for them.
So we'll see what happens...