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  #1  
Old 02-27-2012, 09:31 PM
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Default I Know FT Takes Priority Over PT, But...

I found this in another thread: "Full time takes priority -- end of story. It is spelled out in her contract."

Right now, I verbally tell all of my clients I have a "totem pole" of priority - those who pay a month in advance and are ft are basically locked into their spots and it goes down from there. Pt'ers who pay a week at a time are my lowest priority.

Should I add this in writing into the contract/handbook, I wonder?

Just trying to cover all my bases.
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  #2  
Old 02-28-2012, 04:16 AM
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That is pretty confusing...... It will require too many conversations.

Less information is better.

IMHO, YOU know who your priority clients are, that should be enough.

Any client with a bit of common sense will know that if they are only willing to pay for two days they could potentially lose their slot to someone willing to pay for five.

Simple supply and demand.
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  #3  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:25 AM
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YES! This was in my topic and yes...add it if this is how you feel!!

As you saw in my post, I added it after I had a couple of families and now am faced with telling a p/t family that I would prefer a f/t one...this statement would really help me right now!!
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  #4  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:35 AM
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Just because something is not in your contract does not mean that you cannot tell a family that you are letting them go in order to have a place for a full timer.
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  #5  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:47 AM
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Thats why i love the clause in my contract stating i can terminate at any time without notice..
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  #6  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:50 AM
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I also take into consideration how well the child fits with the rest of the group and how the parents treat me/my business. Right now I have a ft'er whose mom has chosen not to respect my rules or my home. If I didn't know I'd be moving this summer, I would term her for a pt'er.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:56 AM
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Originally Posted by kayla View Post
Thats why i love the clause in my contract stating i can terminate at any time without notice..
I don't know if I like this or not-

I have mixed feelings on this statement. Anyone else?
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  #8  
Old 02-28-2012, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
I don't know if I like this or not-

I have mixed feelings on this statement. Anyone else?
It's my house. If I don't want them in it.....bye bye!

I too have it in my contract that I can term without notice. If someone is rude to me and treats me like dirt, I am not about to continue providing service to them. I show them the door.....on the spot. I think it's important. You need to protect your business and family. You never know if you are going to get some crazy person sign up, or a child who decides to destroy your home. You MUST have the power to kick them out on the spot if necessary. My contract actually states, that under most circumstances, I will give two weeks notice, but that I reserve the right to immediate cancellation of service if I see fit.
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  #9  
Old 02-28-2012, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by kayla View Post
Thats why i love the clause in my contract stating i can terminate at any time without notice..
Quote:
Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
I don't know if I like this or not-

I have mixed feelings on this statement. Anyone else?
I would only have a problem with it if my child care provider was flaky and I felt as though she would term based on the color of my socks...kwim?

Most providers are professionals and act accordingly and the clause allowing immediate termination is generally used as a last resort for dangerous or "bad" situations where it is just not safe or sane to allow a parent or child to return.

I don't think there are providers (few, if any) who abuse that clause. (My personal opinion)
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  #10  
Old 02-28-2012, 07:00 AM
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My termenation with out notice says

I can and will terminate our child care arrangements immediately for any of the following reasons (but not solely limited to):


-Harming anyone including but not limited to other children, other adults and myself by your child or one of their adults (including but not limited to Mom and Dad)


• Failure to comply with the contract.

• Destructive or hurtful behavior of child that persists even with parent cooperation in stopping the behavior.

• Non-Payment of childcare fees or late and/or recurring late payment of fees.

• Failure to complete required forms.

• Inability to meet the child’s needs without additional staff.

• Blatant disrespect towards provider or provider’s family.

• If parents knowingly bring their child ill.

• Disrespectful behavior of the neighborhood (myself and/or neighbor/s will determine what is disrespectful behavior)
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  #11  
Old 02-28-2012, 07:44 AM
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Oh boy, I'm going to go against the grain on this one .

Once I have agreed to take a family, whether they are FT or PT, I think that family has a right to expect that their spot is secure. If I only want FT families, then I feel like it's my obligation to leave a spot unfilled until I find that FT family. I feel like it would be unprofessional to take a PT family, only to boot them once a FT family comes along.

Of course, if a family is not following the rules or is disrespectful, etc., I would terminate our contract, but I would not do it simply because they are part-time.

JMHO.
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2012, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MyAngels View Post
Oh boy, I'm going to go against the grain on this one .

Once I have agreed to take a family, whether they are FT or PT, I think that family has a right to expect that their spot is secure. If I only want FT families, then I feel like it's my obligation to leave a spot unfilled until I find that FT family. I feel like it would be unprofessional to take a PT family, only to boot them once a FT family comes along.

Of course, if a family is not following the rules or is disrespectful, etc., I would terminate our contract, but I would not do it simply because they are part-time.

JMHO.
I give my PT families a heads up during the interview and contract signing. If I have an interview for a FT family and I am considering signing them, I lay it out for the PT family. They can pay and use the full time space or consider this 2 weeks notice. Every part time family I ever said that to signed on for the FT spot.

It isn't mean or cruel. It is business and while I do care for my clients, I care more for my family's financial security. I will not give up thousands in income each year to appease a client's schedule.
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2012, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by MyAngels View Post
Oh boy, I'm going to go against the grain on this one .

Once I have agreed to take a family, whether they are FT or PT, I think that family has a right to expect that their spot is secure. If I only want FT families, then I feel like it's my obligation to leave a spot unfilled until I find that FT family. I feel like it would be unprofessional to take a PT family, only to boot them once a FT family comes along.

Of course, if a family is not following the rules or is disrespectful, etc., I would terminate our contract, but I would not do it simply because they are part-time.

JMHO.
I don't think that is against the grain. That is exactly why I don't accept part-time or drop-in clients.

It is known across our profession that part-time slots are not stable slots. Clients should already be aware of that.
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  #14  
Old 02-28-2012, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by My3cents View Post
I don't know if I like this or not-

I have mixed feelings on this statement. Anyone else?
I understand what you are saying from a provider standpoint, but as a parents, that statement would not give me the confidence of security that my child will have a spot to go to each week.

How much notice do you give the parents when you do term?
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  #15  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:03 AM
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The only time that PT has priority over FT is when I have a FT open spot.

Example

If I have 3 families that all want part time have interviewed for my last full time spot and then I have one family that interviewed for it that wants full time, I would give it to the FT family first, also taking into consideration that they are a fit. It does not matter who I interviewed first, it goes to full time first.

The way you are stating it, it sounds like you are saying that if you have a child enrolled PT and then a family wants to interview for a full time spot, that you would let that PT child go so you could take the FT?? IPO, I don't think that's fair.

If you take a part time family, it will be up to you fill the other days of the week with another PT family. This is why I only take full time or if I can't fill the FT spot, I will allow a M_W_F or a T-H, this way two kids will take up a full time spot.
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:55 AM
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The way you are stating it, it sounds like you are saying that if you have a child enrolled PT and then a family wants to interview for a full time spot, that you would let that PT child go so you could take the FT?? IPO, I don't think that's fair.

This is exactly what I do. It isn't unfair. It is business. They want to have the part time schedule to save money. I want the full time schedule to make money. Neither party is right or wrong, just on different sides.

I want to be paid for 5 full time slots. If I have 4 full time slots filled and one part time slot filled I am losing potential income on that part time slot. As long as I don't have someone waiting for that full time space, I am happy to fill it with a part timer.

If I get a call for a full time contract, I interview them. If I am willing to accept them into care, I go to the PT family. I say, "I have a family waiting for a full time slot. Your child is only here 2 or 3 days a week. There are two ways we can work this - #1) You can take the full time space #2) Or you can have two weeks to find alternate care for little Johnny."

I work 55 hours with the kids whether I have one child here or five. I want five here so that I maximizing my income. If I have any open spaces on any days I am losing money. I try my best to fill those gaps.

In the end, I am just the daycare provider. It is up to their parents to make sure their child is in a stable situation. If they really value one long term caregiver, the decision to pay for a full time space when they only need part time care is easy. If they value their dollars more than a daycare situation, the decision to find a new caregiver will also be easy. it comes down to what they value more. Sometimes they value the caregiver more, sometimes they value their money more. Neither is right or wrong. It is just a preference.


If you take a part time family, it will be up to you fill the other days of the week with another PT family. This is why I only take full time or if I can't fill the FT spot, I will allow a M_W_F or a T-H, this way two kids will take up a full time spot.

That is great in theory, but it isn't always that easy. I have a lot of people looking for T, Th, F slots and M, W, F slots. Those don't match up. And just because a client has a wacky schedule doesn't mean I need to be the one to solve it. I will accept them into care as long as the schedule works for me. If I begin losing money on that spot, I need to figure out a solution. The easiest solution is finding a full timer. Second best is having a part time family pay for the full time space.
I answered in bold.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:59 AM
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All of my current families are PT. In fact, I'm closed on Wednesdays so FT for me is 4 days a week this year. That may change as I need to pick up 1 or 2 new kids and I'll have to see who comes my way. My PTers pay for 3.5 days for up to 3 days of care - set days. They all know that FT takes priority and understand that they can be bumped if I have a FT family who wants me and the PT family doesn't want to pay my FT rate. But I'm happy with my crew. I did have to rock the boat last year with a PITA PT family. Half days for a baby, ugh. She threw a fit that I couldn't promise her son would have a spot come August. This was on May 1st. Teacher family who didn't want to pay my hold rate over the summer.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2012, 10:15 AM
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I answered in bold.
as we all say, we can agree to disagree. That would mean that a part time family will never be safe. They were alway be in jeopardy of being termed.

I have kids here part time and its not to save money, its because the parent only want part time so they can spend the rest of the day with raising their child. I have parents that only enroll them for the social aspect of it.

My area is very different than probably most out of 6 of my parents do not work full time. One does not work at all and her child is here from 9:00-3:30 every day.

So for me, PT is quite the norm in my area. Here almost every other household has a mom home.

Last edited by daycare; 02-28-2012 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:18 AM
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Whenever I have a P/T family, I always let them know that I am looking for a full time spot, and that I will have to take a full timer if I get one.

I do always let them know that they are welcome to pay full time, and I have had 2 families take me up on that.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:50 AM
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as we all say, we can agree to disagree. That would mean that a part time family will never be safe. They were alway be in jeopardy of being termed.

I have kids here part time and its not to save money, its because the parent only want part time so they can spend the rest of the day with raising their child. I have parents that only enroll them for the social aspect of it.

My area is very different than probably most out of 6 of my parents do not work full time. One does not work at all and her child is here from 9:00-3:30 every day.

So for me, PT is quite the norm in my area. Here almost every other household has a mom home.
I do things exactly like JenNJ....and yes daycare, you are right a part time family is never safe but that is not my problem. I do daycare because I need to make money.

Full time brings in more $ than part-time unless I have the perfect part-timer to fill the spaces around each other (which doesn't happen often enough to make it worthwhile) so I choose to take full timers over part timers all the time.

I also do like JenNJ and go to the part timer and offer them the space first, if they choose not to take it, then they are given notice.

I feel bad for families that are in that position but I also refuse to make their part time needs my problem. There are plenty of other daycares that cater to part timers. I just don't happen to be one of them.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:57 AM
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I don't think Mary Poppins was indicating in her original post that she was pushing out anyone, I think she was asking if she should put it in writting and that her clients already know that being p/t could put them at risk of loosing their spot if she found a f/t family because of the issue I am currently into. I don't see what's unfair about that. She is now wanting to put into writting what has already been agreed upon verbally. IMO, if a parent is willing to sign on to that p/t spot knowing that, then that's their choice right? If the family isn't happy knowing they could be pushed out to a f/t child, then they don't have to sign on with her or anyone else who has a statement like that in their contract.

For me, my minimum p/t is 3 days/wk, I have one p/t family now and have been told different things from them in recent weeks. I need to protect my own business and income, so when DCM asked me to allow her fewer days per/wk and indicated that she would be happy to keep little man home if I didn't agree to her request, I started to interview. Now, she has changed what she told me and wants to talk more to her husband, but I have found a f/t family to fill her spot when she goes on mat leave this summer. Of course I don't want to tell anyone I can't care for their child anymore because they are p/t, but I am doing the move for me, my family and what works for us financially. By keeping the p/t vs taking the f/t I lose $244/month...over the year that adds up to over $3000 if you take into account the months that have 5 pay days in them!

In my case the DCM has been unclear on her needs/wants which forced me to ensure I didn't have an emtpy space to fill at the last moment or that they decided to stay and then later leave because they couldn't afford it (she mentioned costs) - but in reality - I'm sure there are a number of providers who find themselves needing to change things up to be in a better position financially and life changes over time and so do the needs of each daycare.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:00 AM
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That would mean that a part time family will never be safe. They were alway be in jeopardy of being termed.

.
It would be just as fair as our income being dependent on our health and keeping our homes.

Fair really does not exist.

You have to choose which family deserves your commitment most....theirs or yours.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:05 AM
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It would be just as fair as our income being dependent on our health and keeping our homes.

Fair really does not exist.

You have to choose which family deserves your commitment most....theirs or yours.
FANTASTIC way to put it in perspective Cat!

I always felt a little bad about how things HAVE to be sometimes but really when push comes to shove we all have to do what is best for our own families.

I expect my parents to do that and I guess I should expect them to expect that from me as well.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:09 AM
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It would be just as fair as our income being dependent on our health and keeping our homes.

Fair really does not exist.

You have to choose which family deserves your commitment most....theirs or yours.
I understand and agree to this.

I guess it's just not something that I am willing to do. I hardly ever get calls for full time care and for the first time in 3 years, I have 3 full time kids. The others are all part time, but take up a full time spot.

Once I have the kids, If they are great, there is no way that I would want to risk losing a great kid. I guess for me sometimes its not about the money.. I find that kids who spend more time with the parents tend to be the ones that have much better behavior, the parents seem to be happier and they also follow my rules more due to their flexible schedules.
The ones that I have had that are full time are usually the ones that I have the most problems with both child and parent. I would rather have a happier me with great kids than to have ones that drive me looney but put more money in my pocket.

I would take quality over quantity. BUT this is what works for me...

So if you had a child in care part time is there a certain lenght of time that they would know for sure that they had a spot? If you have a child that you enrolled and two weeks later a call comes in for a FULL time spot, do you out the other family?

Last edited by daycare; 02-28-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:14 AM
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So if you had a child in care part time is there a certain lenght of time that they would know for sure that they had a spot? If you have a child that you enrolled and two weeks later a call comes in for a FULL time spot, do you out the other family?
For example, I have a pair of brothers in care now who are here 3 days a week. They pay my my part time rate (higher than full time) with no sibling discount. I have a girl on the opposite two days also paying my higher part time rate. In total, they bring in 30% more than two full timers would bring in. They are all safe. They are using just 2 slots and I am earning more than I would with 2 typical kids. That is staying power.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:16 AM
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For example, I have a pair of brothers in care now who are here 3 days a week. They pay my my part time rate (higher than full time) with no sibling discount. I have a girl on the opposite two days also paying my higher part time rate. In total, they bring in 30% more than two full timers would bring in. They are all safe. They are using just 2 slots and I am earning more than I would with 2 typical kids. That is staying power.
This is how I wish it could work out in my case, but around here it's harder to find a p/t child then a f/t one! I also charge more for p/t.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:17 AM
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For example, I have a pair of brothers in care now who are here 3 days a week. They pay my my part time rate (higher than full time) with no sibling discount. I have a girl on the opposite two days also paying my higher part time rate. In total, they bring in 30% more than two full timers would bring in. They are all safe. They are using just 2 slots and I am earning more than I would with 2 typical kids. That is staying power.
This is exactly what I do..... but what happens if the siblings leave. ?????
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:47 AM
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Oh boy, I'm going to go against the grain on this one .

Once I have agreed to take a family, whether they are FT or PT, I think that family has a right to expect that their spot is secure. If I only want FT families, then I feel like it's my obligation to leave a spot unfilled until I find that FT family. I feel like it would be unprofessional to take a PT family, only to boot them once a FT family comes along.

Of course, if a family is not following the rules or is disrespectful, etc., I would terminate our contract, but I would not do it simply because they are part-time.

JMHO.
I agree. I would be really upset if my kids were allowed in only until someone better (ft) came along. But to each their own I guess.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:50 AM
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This is exactly what I do..... but what happens if the siblings leave. ?????
When the siblings leave, I will try to replace them with full time kids. See this is when that little rule comes in handy. I can find one full time kid and offer the other FT space to the PT kid. Or I can find two full timers. All the rule does is make the conversation with the PT family easier since they knew in advance that this is a possibility.

And really, this rule isn't anything different. No family is really "safe" from termination. They can increase the odds of being safe by following rules, respecting my home, my family and myself, and raising children who are pleasant to be around. But at the end of the day I can terminate care for whatever reason I choose, just as they can. That is the nature of this business.

I don't take terminations lightly, but I do know that I am in this business for a few reasons:
1) to be with my kids
2) to make money
3) because I am really good at it
4) because I enjoy it

None of my reasons have anything to do with who I am contracted with. I get satisfaction from providing a stable home life for my kids and providing income for my family. Any client can be replaced. I don't get attached simply because I know how this job can be. I am a great business owner because I make decisions with my head 99% of the time.
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by familyschoolcare View Post
My termenation with out notice says

I can and will terminate our child care arrangements immediately for any of the following reasons (but not solely limited to):


-Harming anyone including but not limited to other children, other adults and myself by your child or one of their adults (including but not limited to Mom and Dad)


• Failure to comply with the contract.

• Destructive or hurtful behavior of child that persists even with parent cooperation in stopping the behavior.

• Non-Payment of childcare fees or late and/or recurring late payment of fees.

• Failure to complete required forms.

• Inability to meet the child’s needs without additional staff.

• Blatant disrespect towards provider or provider’s family.

• If parents knowingly bring their child ill.

• Disrespectful behavior of the neighborhood (myself and/or neighbor/s will determine what is disrespectful behavior)
Hey, I think we have the same contract, LOL!! I'm sure I got this info online years ago. I do have a "clause" about giving notice but the above are things that could mean immediate termination.

As far as priority - I wouldn't go into it in detail but I like having that little blurb in there - have never needed it though, never termed a part timer for a full timer.
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