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  #1  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:06 AM
kgravino kgravino is offline
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Default Daycare Provider Paid Time Off

Hi everyone!

I'm new to the daycare scene and would like to know what is within the legal guidelines for charging for time off. My daycare provider charges me for 14 holidays, 10 vacation days (hers), sick days (hers), emergency days (hers). She charges $32 a day. My child is there part-time. She provides no back up but, she does give advance notice for vacation time. I am having a problem with her paid vacation and sick time. How many of employers pay their employees vacation time and then pay someone else to do the work their employee who is on vacation does? The same goes for sick time. I'm confused. Who works for who?

frustrated in ny

Last edited by Michael; 12-01-2009 at 02:13 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-31-2008, 12:42 PM
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Default I feel your pain

As you may notice, I comment on these type of questions frequently as I too am learning as I go Legally, I believe the providers can charge you for anything they like as long as you agree to pay. Many people have suggested asking for a contract (which I did not do with my provider) so that you know what you are signing on for in advance. In my experience of calling around to several daycares to ask their policies, it's a mixed bag...some charge for time off, some don't. My child goes part-time, but my provider does not do a part-time rate, so I pay for full-time care (which I agreed to). I also pay for her holidays and within the past year I have paid for 3 weeks sick leave (I did not agree with this, but did not have a contract to refer to and thus ended up in an argument and losing). You may want to refer to some of the other posts if you haven't already for more information. To answer your question of "who works for who?", I am of the opinion that if I am paying someone for a service and they are not providing it the way I prefer, I have the right to discontinue this service. So, in a sense the provider works for me. However, you will likely find (as I have) that the providers tell you how it works and you either agree or don't...
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Old 08-03-2008, 04:11 PM
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I don't believe that there are any laws governing holidays/vacation time. I think the rates and policies are as varied as they types of providers. You just have to find the one that suits you and your child best. Good Luck!
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Old 10-02-2008, 07:16 PM
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Hi everyone!

How many of employers pay their employees vacation time and then pay someone else to do the work their employee who is on vacation does? The same goes for sick time.
Many, many companies pay for someone else to do a job that needs to be done when someone is on vacation or off of work sick.

In fact, I can't think of many companies that don't.

Do you have a paid vacation? Do you have paid sick days at work?
Why shouldn't a provider have those same benefits?
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:29 AM
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Hi everyone!

I'm new to the daycare scene and would like to know what is within the legal guidelines for charging for time off. My dacare provider charges me for 14 holidays, 10 vacation days (hers), sick days (hers), emergency days (hers). She charges $32 a day. My child is there part-time. She provides no back up but, she does give advance notice for vacation time. I am having a problem with her paid vacation and sick time. How many of employers pay their employees vacation time and then pay someone else to do the work their employee who is on vacation does? The same goes for sick time. I'm confused. Who works for who?

frustrated in ny
As a daycare provider, why can't we take paid vacation? You do.

Last edited by Michael; 12-12-2008 at 01:02 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-15-2008, 08:37 PM
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When I worked outside the home I got paid holidays, sick days plus so many personal days a year. My employer also had someone else fill in on my job when I was not there.
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  #7  
Old 12-16-2008, 01:56 AM
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Hi,
In regards to the post from:

frustrated in ny
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It doesn't seem confusing to me, every business that pays their employees vacation or sick leave and every business that doesn't pay for it, every one of the businesses have to get someone to replace each employee while they are gone (sick or on vacation) and pay the replacements salary from the businesses own money (not from their employee that is gone), or they have to split up the work between other workers, who then can't do all of their own work, while taking on extra work from the employee who is gone.

Providers do not work for parents, we are not employed by parents. Our daycare is our own business, we make our own policies, we make our own contract, we decide what we want to charge. There is no legal guideline as to what we charge, because we can charge whatever we want. In my state, daycare and cost of living is expensive. Infant rates range from as low as $500 (stay at home moms) to as high as $1200 (and even higher). There are providers (private-stay at home moms) that even charge more and they get it, I think that is crazy, but parents do pay that and if they want to pay that, it is their choice. Licensed (and unlicensed-stay at home moms) providers can charge any amount (I'm pretty sure in every state), we can take off as many days as we want. I can take off

The thing parents forget is when a parent takes vacation, sick days, etc... we can't just fill that spot so we don't lose money. If a parent takes 2 weeks, that will be about $250-$300 (depending on what state you live in), a provider can just add $25 a month and get paid for the vacation time after all. At home daycares and centers, they charge a flat rate (in my state and most or all others), to keep your childs spot reserved for you, most do not give you your money back (for full time flat rates) and keep your spot vacant, while losing money.

It is up to each provider to choose what they want to charge and take off. I have had my daycare for 10 years (with manylong term parents). My daughters run it with me (one goes to full time college-luckily a few miles away and the other will go sometime soon). So, our daycare has an advantage of 3 family members, for more one on one attention. We provide more than just about any other daycare or center.
In the last 10 years, we have provided or done the following:

We have never called in sick (even though it's in our covtract).
We have never taken or charged for any vacation (and 2 weeks paid is in our covtract).
We have rarely sent a sick child home, maybe 12 times (even though it's in our covtract).
We used to be open for many years, 365 days a year with 0 time off, many, many times for more than 300, 400 and even 500 hours a month (even though it's in our covtract).
We used to let low income parents keep their co-payment up to $70, provide free over time, free nights out, paid for b-day parties for low income parents, given many rides (due to no car, break downs, etc...), many times we provided long term care (for parents out of state vacations-aslong as 2 full weeks, hospitalizations for surgeries and accidents, c-sectons, broken neck, etc...), we have bought countless thousands of $ for clothes, coats, shoes, etc..., paid rent, toys, bikes and more. We used to spend $50-$100 on each child for every b-day and Christmas, as well as for my own children and then like many providers, their dad skipped out. We still do all the other non financial things and all the free nights out, overtime, late fees...........until a parent abuses me, then I charge.

This is our business and we decide what we charge, what hours we work, what we let slide and when we have had enough abuse.

We fix so many problem children (enotionally, physically, biying, eating and anger problems, etc..), children that are 3 1/2-5. Now we have a 4 1/2 yr old that was wetting and pooping in pull ups, literal drooling (flowing constantly, all day long, every day), walking like a much younger child (like a special need child on his toes, with hands dangling) couldn't say more than a couple understandable words. It took TWO days to teach him how to keep swallowing, it took 1 statement of no more going in your pants at my house and he never did again, but he did for 6 more months at home (parents even acknowledged he did it intentionally). Some parents won't try or help us out. We get so many children like that, it's unbelievable, it is extremely hard, so time consuming, tedious, frustrating that these parents let this go, don't know better, but don't get help or are lazy. I can't not take these children, I don't want them to slip through the cracks. I have THREE of these children (delayed due to parents) in my care. I get many parents that won't accept there is something wrong with their child/ren (it is extremely obvious) and they fight me or the system or the steps needed and we have to fix them ourselves.We have gone through so many children with problems, I want to start insisting on getting special needs pay (I never have). Sorry, just venting. I'm serious, it happens a lot.
I used to do a daycare network, hooking up parents and providers, helping parents feel comfortable and at ease. I don't do it anymore (very time consuming), I had tons of parents wanting to use my daycare. Sometimes I want to quit and take the easy kids, I used to hear how hard it was to find daycare.

Thanks for reading, have a great Christmas
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  #8  
Old 06-17-2009, 09:48 AM
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Thumbs down Same Concerns

Home daycare providers are self employed. Self employed people usually don't get paid vacation. My provider asks for paid vacation and I do not agree with it. When we go on vacation, I will still pay for the week that my child is not there. That I agree with. I also do not have a problem paying for holidays should it fall on a weekday, but paid vacations? So basically, I have to pay for her for not watching my child and pay for someone else to watch him. Doesn't make sense. This is why I am changing providers. Good luck.
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  #9  
Old 06-17-2009, 02:18 PM
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Home daycare providers are self employed. Self employed people usually don't get paid vacation. My provider asks for paid vacation and I do not agree with it. When we go on vacation, I will still pay for the week that my child is not there. That I agree with. I also do not have a problem paying for holidays should it fall on a weekday, but paid vacations? So basically, I have to pay for her for not watching my child and pay for someone else to watch him. Doesn't make sense. This is why I am changing providers. Good luck.

Most self employed people make much more than a daycare provider. My plumber charges $75 per hour, my handyman over $35 per hour, me a dc provider.....I get less than $1.75 per hour to care for your child, and I supply care, love, food, activities, etc. If you have a good daycare provider, be thankful and treat her nice, we deserve it, just like you think you deserve paid vacations, paid sick days, paid time off for a family death, etc. The person you leave your child with should be very important to you.
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  #10  
Old 06-17-2009, 11:21 PM
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Most self employed people make much more than a daycare provider. My plumber charges $75 per hour, my handyman over $35 per hour, me a dc provider.....I get less than $1.75 per hour to care for your child, and I supply care, love, food, activities, etc. If you have a good daycare provider, be thankful and treat her nice, we deserve it, just like you think you deserve paid vacations, paid sick days, paid time off for a family death, etc. The person you leave your child with should be very important to you.
Actually, most self employed people make about the same as many daycare providers with a healthy attendance....I'm self employed, and my wife is on track to make more than I will this year at the rate things are going. And she doesn't have anywhere near the investment in equipment that I do, nor does she put in the hours that I do.

Starting to think I'm in the wrong gig here...........


You're comparing daycare to being a plumber's service call fee, but you don't have to travel to the child's location to begin the service (time and travel costs that are factored into that service call), nor do you bring all the tools (toys) to that location.

Not trying to knock you here, but getting a master plumbers license is nothing like a DC license....apples to oranges. Your handyman is a closer comparison, but in both those trades, work is hit and miss-the phone may ring off the hook, and it may lay silent for weeks. It's not steady, day in, day out work like DC.
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  #11  
Old 07-03-2009, 09:22 AM
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QUOTE FROM ABOVE "You're comparing daycare to being a plumber's service call fee, but you don't have to travel to the child's location to begin the service (time and travel costs that are factored into that service call), nor do you bring all the tools (toys) to that location"

Yes, and I am NOT getting paid $75 per hour, I am getting paid $16 per day for 9 1/2 hours of care. What about the time and travel cost and the actual cost of supplies for providers......when gas went up to $4 per gallon and virtually everything I purchased for dc supplies went up in cost, I didn't raise my rates, my I can assure you when I called the plumber I was charged a $3.50 surplus gas charge. Yes, I feel it is a fair comparison. Business owner to business owner.
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  #12  
Old 07-05-2009, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE FROM ABOVE "You're comparing daycare to being a plumber's service call fee, but you don't have to travel to the child's location to begin the service (time and travel costs that are factored into that service call), nor do you bring all the tools (toys) to that location"

Yes, and I am NOT getting paid $75 per hour, I am getting paid $16 per day for 9 1/2 hours of care. What about the time and travel cost and the actual cost of supplies for providers......when gas went up to $4 per gallon and virtually everything I purchased for dc supplies went up in cost, I didn't raise my rates, my I can assure you when I called the plumber I was charged a $3.50 surplus gas charge. Yes, I feel it is a fair comparison. Business owner to business owner.
My advice-come tax time every year, compare your inputs (materials, supplies, utilities, lic fees, etc) to your revenue, and if you see the ratio starting to close up, then it's time to raise the rates accordingly.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:11 PM
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While I do understand that, there is always that saying "You can only charge what the market will bear". I have chatted with many providers across the country, and during these hard economic times, most providers are very leary of upping their rates, for fear of clients leaving and finding someone $5 cheaper. Providers seems to be the last on the list to pay for many parents, and the first place they will cut corners any way they can.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:33 PM
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While I do understand that, there is always that saying "You can only charge what the market will bear". I have chatted with many providers across the country, and during these hard economic times, most providers are very leary of upping their rates, for fear of clients leaving and finding someone $5 cheaper. Providers seems to be the last on the list to pay for many parents, and the first place they will cut corners any way they can.
I don't want to sound flippant about it, but children are not a "limited commodity".....people are always having kids, and always needing daycare. If they're willing to switch DC's over a $5/week rate increase, good riddance to them, they were looking for a reason anyways.

Even in these "hard economic times", our phone is ringing at least twice per week with someone seeking child care....many times, we have to turn them away, just because it won't work out (numbers, they want the moon and stars, the parents just come off as flakes, etc).
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Old 07-25-2009, 02:25 PM
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I would say children being a "limited commodity" depends on where you live. I live in the a county that has the highest unemployment rate in my state. Providers in our area----their phones are NOT ringing off the walls, if we have kids to care for, we feel very fortunate. Many providers have lost families, days of care, etc. due to the recession. If it hasn't happened in your area, you are one of the lucky ones.
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Old 11-28-2009, 07:40 AM
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Many, many companies pay for someone else to do a job that needs to be done when someone is on vacation or off of work sick.

In fact, I can't think of many companies that don't.

Do you have a paid vacation? Do you have paid sick days at work?
Why shouldn't a provider have those same benefits?
Why? because a daycare provider is self employed. All other self employed people have to take time off at their own expense.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:05 PM
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Why? because a daycare provider is self employed. All other self employed people have to take time off at their own expense.
I see what you are getting at and your are correct to a point.

I am a business owner and my business charges XX amount of dollars per month. When your child goes off to college you will pay tuition which will not be reduced because the professor cancelled class because of weather, illness or holiday. My daughters gymnastics club charges me $177 per month. Her class is offered 2x per week which we pay regardless of actual sessions she attends each month or if the class is cancelled for some reason or happens to fall on a holiday.

But, here is the most important thing I can tell you as a provider. READ your contract. If you don't like the terms of the contract, DO NOT sign it. If you sign the contract abide by the terms of said contract and stop complaining.

I will never understand why people continue to question the terms of a contract that they themselves signed!!!
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:18 PM
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Why? because a daycare provider is self employed. All other self employed people have to take time off at their own expense.
And most other self employed people make a heck of a lot more per hour/per day, etc than I do. Heck, my plumber charges $75 per service call. I guess I could up my fee from $16 per day to hmm, lets say $25 per day, and not charge for those few measly holidays throughout the year, but then, that wouldn't make the parents very happy. So, as a self employed daycare provider, I charge $16 per day and charge whether the child is here or not. You are paying rent on a spot technically, just like renting a home, paying for cable, etc.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:57 PM
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Or you could remember that providers make $16-$30 a DAY! Which makes $80 -$150 a week. Out of that money that is made is expenses for proper care. How many people make it on the amount of money that providers make a week/day?
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:57 PM
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For a real fun time, parents should ask their CENTER directors about paid holidays. I know of at least one center in our area that is closed for 2 weeks over Christmas and the parents still have to pay. Okay, but then they basically lay off their employees over the Christmas break. Charge the parents but don't pay the employees, a forced 2 weeks with no pay. Of course that little nugget isn't in the contract. Hmmmm, makes the home providers seem a little less sinister and money grubbing.
Read the contract, if you don't agree with their policy move on to a different provider.
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Old 12-01-2009, 12:57 AM
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Or you could remember that providers make $16-$30 a DAY! Which makes $80 -$150 a week. Out of that money that is made is expenses for proper care. How many people make it on the amount of money that providers make a week/day?
That's per child....if you have 5 kids in your care, that's $400-$750 per week.

How many people make that kind of money with no commute, can wear sweats and T's to work, and do their laundry/dusting/dishes/etc on the clock?

Add to that, you don't have to pay DC bills for your own kids, and that ain't cheap.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:50 AM
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That's per child....if you have 5 kids in your care, that's $400-$750 per week.

How many people make that kind of money with no commute, can wear sweats and T's to work, and do their laundry/dusting/dishes/etc on the clock?

Add to that, you don't have to pay DC bills for your own kids, and that ain't cheap.
I have 4 kids & in a good month I make about 1300 a month. I dont know about anyone else but where I live grocery went up & I spend about $200 - $300 every 2 weeks, half of that is for the daycare. Even before grocerys I make a little over $300 a week, which if you think about it after taxes would be a normal paycheck for others. I just have to pay my taxes in one big lump sum at the end of the yr.
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:05 AM
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My days are 10.75 hours long. On a good week, I make $116 per day. That comes out to $10.79 per hour, minus groceries, electricity, heat, daycare insurance, homeowners insurance which I have to have before I can get dc insurance, supplies for daycare and preschool, wear and tear on my home, replacing things that are broken, my taxes come out of this too. I do an average of 4 to 6 loads of laundry per week that is daycare laundry (blankets, crib bedding, nap stuff, kitchen towels). On my own time after work hours, I do my grocery and supply shopping, cleaning, preschool curriculum planning, organizing and cleaning of daycare area, daycare books, etc. I feed these dc kids 2 of their 3 meals each day.

My utilities, food and home expenses are much higher than if I worked out of the home, and even though I can deduct 40% of my electric bill, that does not cover my useage, and that goes for my heat too, which I keep my home comfortable for my dc.

And I don't wear sweats and T's to work, I am a business and I dress accordingly. So really, how much do I really make in the end after all these expenses are deducted from my $10.79 per hour??????
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Old 12-01-2009, 08:30 AM
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I would also like to add that I normally do not get housework done during DC hours. If I do it is during nap time & at that time I usually dont get it laundry or dishes done cuz I do not want to make too much noise to wake the kids up. Cranky kids are no fun to be around.
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Old 12-01-2009, 11:58 AM
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Jen, I have a question. My kids are currently attending a local daycare facility. In their policies it states which days of the year the daycare will be closed. There was Thanksgiving, but no mention of the day after Thanksgiving. To my surprise I went to drop off my children the day after Thanksgiving and it was closed. Not only was it not in the policies, but it wasn't posted anywhere. I assumed it was a normal day because many people do have to go back to work. I requested to be refunded for that day because it was not in the stated closure dates for the year. I was wondering if there is laws or regulations that oultine closures? I couldn't find anyhting anywhere. I asked you this question because I noticed that you were an owner.



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I see what you are getting at and your are correct to a point.

I am a business owner and my business charges XX amount of dollars per month. When your child goes off to college you will pay tuition which will not be reduced because the professor cancelled class because of weather, illness or holiday. My daughters gymnastics club charges me $177 per month. Her class is offered 2x per week which we pay regardless of actual sessions she attends each month or if the class is cancelled for some reason or happens to fall on a holiday.

But, here is the most important thing I can tell you as a provider. READ your contract. If you don't like the terms of the contract, DO NOT sign it. If you sign the contract abide by the terms of said contract and stop complaining.

I will never understand why people continue to question the terms of a contract that they themselves signed!!!
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Old 12-01-2009, 01:11 PM
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My days are 10.75 hours long. On a good week, I make $116 per day. That comes out to $10.79 per hour, minus groceries, electricity, heat, daycare insurance, homeowners insurance which I have to have before I can get dc insurance, supplies for daycare and preschool, wear and tear on my home, replacing things that are broken, my taxes come out of this too. I do an average of 4 to 6 loads of laundry per week that is daycare laundry (blankets, crib bedding, nap stuff, kitchen towels). On my own time after work hours, I do my grocery and supply shopping, cleaning, preschool curriculum planning, organizing and cleaning of daycare area, daycare books, etc. I feed these dc kids 2 of their 3 meals each day.

My utilities, food and home expenses are much higher than if I worked out of the home, and even though I can deduct 40% of my electric bill, that does not cover my useage, and that goes for my heat too, which I keep my home comfortable for my dc.

And I don't wear sweats and T's to work, I am a business and I dress accordingly. So really, how much do I really make in the end after all these expenses are deducted from my $10.79 per hour??????
I'm sure you change diapers in pants suits! My MIL probably spends more annually on her wardrobe for the office than I have invested in every piece of clothing I own (and I bet we could add in the wife's wardrobe and still come up short).

Let's not forget that all your DC expenses are tax deductible. If you quit doing DC and worked outside of the home, do you think your utilities would drop by 40%?

Whether you do DC or work in an office, you still have to have heat, electricity, homeowners insurance, and you'd probably pay ALOT more income taxes. One thing you'd miss out on greatly is mileage deductions.....being no longer self employed would mean that you could no longer deduct mileage, which if you keep an accurate accounting of it, is HUGE write-offs.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again....if you're self employed and using your home as a business location and are paying much of anything in income taxes, you're either rolling some serious dough, or you need to find a new CPA.


We're on the food program, which recoups a large chunk of change every month (about 2/3 of the grocery bill).

If you really feel that you're getting the short end of the financial stick, go find another line of work. I know a few who have quit DC and gone into the workplace, and every last one of them thought it was going to be "oh so great" and now they terribly regret doing it.

Where I'm going with this is, it's not the gross that counts, but the net (the amount that's yours to spend on non-business things).
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Last edited by Chickenhauler; 12-01-2009 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 12-01-2009, 03:13 PM
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Yea, I know there are tax write offs, I have been doing this for over 10 years. My point was that my day does not end at 5:15 when the kids leave. I/We pay expenses that I am sure the parents don't even think about. Yea, I may get to write off food at the end of the year, but I still have to buy it throughout the year. So while the deductions at the end of the year are nice, I still have to pay my utility bill, buy groceries, pay the insurance premium, put gas in my car to go buy the groceries.

And my accountant has told me, you never want to have a consistent loss, that raises lots of red flags.

If your wife does dc, I would think you of all people would understand what it cost to run a dc week to week. Just last week alone I made a purchase for dc, a kitchen set that cost me $85. Yea, I will be able to deduct that, but I still had to have the cash to pay for it at the store, and make the house payment, buy groceries, pay the electric biill, etc etc. Bottom line is, we put a lot of our income back into the business and the parents don't realize it, or want to understand it. They must think the grocery fairy stops by once a week and drops off food.
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Old 12-01-2009, 06:45 PM
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I have an in-home daycare, not a facility. However, when my son was in a private preschool, there was a death in the family of the owner and preschool was closed. I was still expected to pay full tuition. Which I did without issue.

The problem I would have in your situation would be lack of communication. Did you ask them to show you where in the literature it stated that they were closed? I would think that, had the information not been out there somewhere, many people would have shown up. Have you spoken to any other parents? Were they aware that daycare was closed?

In the end, the answer is always the same. 1. Read the contract and abide by the terms of said contract. 2. If you have an issue with care, discuss it with the provider/director. 3. If you are unhappy with the terms of the contract or with the care of your children, move on.


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Jen, I have a question. My kids are currently attending a local daycare facility. In their policies it states which days of the year the daycare will be closed. There was Thanksgiving, but no mention of the day after Thanksgiving. To my surprise I went to drop off my children the day after Thanksgiving and it was closed. Not only was it not in the policies, but it wasn't posted anywhere. I assumed it was a normal day because many people do have to go back to work. I requested to be refunded for that day because it was not in the stated closure dates for the year. I was wondering if there is laws or regulations that oultine closures? I couldn't find anyhting anywhere. I asked you this question because I noticed that you were an owner.
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Old 12-02-2009, 08:31 AM
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Yea, I know there are tax write offs, I have been doing this for over 10 years. My point was that my day does not end at 5:15 when the kids leave. I/We pay expenses that I am sure the parents don't even think about. Yea, I may get to write off food at the end of the year, but I still have to buy it throughout the year. So while the deductions at the end of the year are nice, I still have to pay my utility bill, buy groceries, pay the insurance premium, put gas in my car to go buy the groceries.

And my accountant has told me, you never want to have a consistent loss, that raises lots of red flags.

If your wife does dc, I would think you of all people would understand what it cost to run a dc week to week. Just last week alone I made a purchase for dc, a kitchen set that cost me $85. Yea, I will be able to deduct that, but I still had to have the cash to pay for it at the store, and make the house payment, buy groceries, pay the electric biill, etc etc. Bottom line is, we put a lot of our income back into the business and the parents don't realize it, or want to understand it. They must think the grocery fairy stops by once a week and drops off food.
Yup, welcome to operating a small business. You have to think of it as a business, not a job.

DC costs vs expenses, they are quite profitable (the margin) compared to many other small business's. My trucking eats over 50% of it's revenue in fuel alone, and that's before equipment purchase and upkeep, wages, insurance, licensing, etc. Let's not even start on farming..........



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And my accountant has told me, you never want to have a consistent loss, that raises lots of red flags.
Our accountant says to write it down to the point where you owe a pittance in taxes, but not show a loss.

Even if you show a loss and throw all kinds of red flags, if all your deductions are legit and all your "T's" are crossed, let them bring the audit. I went through two audits back to back about 8 years ago, and in the end, the IRS employees only gained a paycheck, the IRS gained nothing.
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:12 PM
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Yea, I know there are tax write offs, I have been doing this for over 10 years. My point was that my day does not end at 5:15 when the kids leave. I/We pay expenses that I am sure the parents don't even think about. Yea, I may get to write off food at the end of the year, but I still have to buy it throughout the year. So while the deductions at the end of the year are nice, I still have to pay my utility bill, buy groceries, pay the insurance premium, put gas in my car to go buy the groceries.

And my accountant has told me, you never want to have a consistent loss, that raises lots of red flags.
Here is one way of looking at it...

Most people go to work, earn a paycheck, pay taxes, and use whats left to pay bills.

We go to work, earn our pay, pay our bills, and then get taxed on whats left! How great is that?! Keeps the taxes down and my child support up..and drives my ex-husband batty! Ya gotta love it!
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Old 12-02-2009, 12:58 PM
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I am not arguing that a daycare home business does not offer good tax incentives. We all know that it does. What I am trying to say is,.........people/mainly parents do not realize the week to week cost of operating a home daycare or a center daycare. They think that the $400 we earn each week is ours to put in our pockets. Well, it is not. Just go buy groceries for the week and my $400 is already down to $300 or less. That is my point here, there are expenses to operating a home daycare and many people do not realize or want to believe it.
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Old 12-02-2009, 02:40 PM
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I am not arguing that a daycare home business does not offer good tax incentives. We all know that it does. What I am trying to say is,.........people/mainly parents do not realize the week to week cost of operating a home daycare or a center daycare. They think that the $400 we earn each week is ours to put in our pockets. Well, it is not. Just go buy groceries for the week and my $400 is already down to $300 or less. That is my point here, there are expenses to operating a home daycare and many people do not realize or want to believe it.
True enough! Do you use the food program?
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Old 12-02-2009, 05:59 PM
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True enough! Do you use the food program?

We don't have one. I just use the standard deduction at tax time, which yes, drops your income right down quite quickly.
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Old 12-02-2009, 06:23 PM
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hi,
in regards to the post from:

Frustrated in ny
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
it doesn't seem confusing to me, every business that pays their employees vacation or sick leave and every business that doesn't pay for it, every one of the businesses have to get someone to replace each employee while they are gone (sick or on vacation) and pay the replacements salary from the businesses own money (not from their employee that is gone), or they have to split up the work between other workers, who then can't do all of their own work, while taking on extra work from the employee who is gone.

Providers do not work for parents, we are not employed by parents. Our daycare is our own business, we make our own policies, we make our own contract, we decide what we want to charge. There is no legal guideline as to what we charge, because we can charge whatever we want. In my state, daycare and cost of living is expensive. Infant rates range from as low as $500 (stay at home moms) to as high as $1200 (and even higher). There are providers (private-stay at home moms) that even charge more and they get it, i think that is crazy, but parents do pay that and if they want to pay that, it is their choice. Licensed (and unlicensed-stay at home moms) providers can charge any amount (i'm pretty sure in every state), we can take off as many days as we want. I can take off

the thing parents forget is when a parent takes vacation, sick days, etc... We can't just fill that spot so we don't lose money. If a parent takes 2 weeks, that will be about $250-$300 (depending on what state you live in), a provider can just add $25 a month and get paid for the vacation time after all. At home daycares and centers, they charge a flat rate (in my state and most or all others), to keep your childs spot reserved for you, most do not give you your money back (for full time flat rates) and keep your spot vacant, while losing money.

It is up to each provider to choose what they want to charge and take off. I have had my daycare for 10 years (with manylong term parents). My daughters run it with me (one goes to full time college-luckily a few miles away and the other will go sometime soon). So, our daycare has an advantage of 3 family members, for more one on one attention. We provide more than just about any other daycare or center.
In the last 10 years, we have provided or done the following:

We have never called in sick (even though it's in our covtract).
We have never taken or charged for any vacation (and 2 weeks paid is in our covtract).
We have rarely sent a sick child home, maybe 12 times (even though it's in our covtract).
We used to be open for many years, 365 days a year with 0 time off, many, many times for more than 300, 400 and even 500 hours a month (even though it's in our covtract).
We used to let low income parents keep their co-payment up to $70, provide free over time, free nights out, paid for b-day parties for low income parents, given many rides (due to no car, break downs, etc...), many times we provided long term care (for parents out of state vacations-aslong as 2 full weeks, hospitalizations for surgeries and accidents, c-sectons, broken neck, etc...), we have bought countless thousands of $ for clothes, coats, shoes, etc..., paid rent, toys, bikes and more. We used to spend $50-$100 on each child for every b-day and christmas, as well as for my own children and then like many providers, their dad skipped out. We still do all the other non financial things and all the free nights out, overtime, late fees...........until a parent abuses me, then i charge.

This is our business and we decide what we charge, what hours we work, what we let slide and when we have had enough abuse.

We fix so many problem children (enotionally, physically, biying, eating and anger problems, etc..), children that are 3 1/2-5. Now we have a 4 1/2 yr old that was wetting and pooping in pull ups, literal drooling (flowing constantly, all day long, every day), walking like a much younger child (like a special need child on his toes, with hands dangling) couldn't say more than a couple understandable words. It took two days to teach him how to keep swallowing, it took 1 statement of no more going in your pants at my house and he never did again, but he did for 6 more months at home (parents even acknowledged he did it intentionally). Some parents won't try or help us out. We get so many children like that, it's unbelievable, it is extremely hard, so time consuming, tedious, frustrating that these parents let this go, don't know better, but don't get help or are lazy. I can't not take these children, i don't want them to slip through the cracks. I have three of these children (delayed due to parents) in my care. I get many parents that won't accept there is something wrong with their child/ren (it is extremely obvious) and they fight me or the system or the steps needed and we have to fix them ourselves.we have gone through so many children with problems, i want to start insisting on getting special needs pay (i never have). Sorry, just venting. I'm serious, it happens a lot.
I used to do a daycare network, hooking up parents and providers, helping parents feel comfortable and at ease. I don't do it anymore (very time consuming), i had tons of parents wanting to use my daycare. Sometimes i want to quit and take the easy kids, i used to hear how hard it was to find daycare.

Thanks for reading, have a great christmas
very well said! I am a mother and daycare provider. I have been on both ends of the stick.
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Old 12-07-2009, 09:05 AM
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Or you could remember that providers make $16-$30 a DAY! Which makes $80 -$150 a week. Out of that money that is made is expenses for proper care. How many people make it on the amount of money that providers make a week/day?
Okay, so when my children were attending full time dc, I was paying anywhere from $200-$250 per week, for my two children. If my two were the only kids in care, that provider would be making only about $200/week, right? However, *most* daycares have more children in attendance. If you have 5 children in care, at that rate, you're clearing $500/week, (going along with what Chickenhauler said about healthy attendance) which is more than I make working outside the home. I don't get paid vacation or paid holidays and somehow, as a single parent without state assistance, I am making it hmmm... (thinking maybe I should open a daycare)

Yes, I agree that a signed contract constitutes agreement with the terms, whatever those terms may be. However, sometimes parents are in a spot to get care so that they can work and have to agree to the terms of the dc whatever those terms may be. And the question here is, is it even fair to *demand* paid vacations, causing the parents to either take time off of work or pay double for that week so that they can work?? Paid holidays that fall within the week are fair. A day or two here and there, I can handle because this person takes care of my child and is therefore worth the little extra that I can muster to give, but I do not believe paid vacation is appropriate. I've said it before and I'll say it again--yes, you deserve paid vacation more than any other profession I can think of, but no, I cannot afford to finance it.
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Old 12-07-2009, 10:05 AM
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And the question here is, is it even fair to *demand* paid vacations, causing the parents to either take time off of work or pay double for that week so that they can work?? Paid holidays that fall within the week are fair. A day or two here and there, I can handle because this person takes care of my child and is therefore worth the little extra that I can muster to give, but I do not believe paid vacation is appropriate. I've said it before and I'll say it again--yes, you deserve paid vacation more than any other profession I can think of, but no, I cannot afford to finance it.
On one had you are saying it is unfair, on the other hand you are saying we deserve a paid vacation...it really can't be both.

As for fair...of course it is "fair." It is OUR business and we determine the rules--that is how operating ones own business works. It is equally "fair" for you to determine that you won't patronize a business because it doesn't fall in your price range.

It is a little bit like saying, "is it fair for BMW to charge $50,000+ for a vehicle? Of course its fair, I just won't be buying one. Many people can and do afford a BMW and can and do affort to pay for a more expensive daycare. It's not about being fair, it is just business.

And yes, you probably would do better financially by opening up your own daycare. I began mine as a single parent and it was the best thing I ever did for my kids.

Oh, I should add that I, myself do not charge for vacation. I build the cost of my vacation in to my rates...I am still being paid and it makes people feel good that they "aren't paying" me when I'm not open!

Last edited by jen; 12-07-2009 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 12-07-2009, 12:10 PM
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I do not charge for my vacation,but I do charge if child on vacation,sick or just not here plus 5 paid holidays/year.
Parents should understand that even if their child not here I am still here working,even if I have one child here. I would not mind to have not paid day off ones in a while,if all families agree to keep kids home on a same day.But it is just not possible. I am doing childcare in my home for almost three years now,and I never had a complaing from parents about that.
Plus you should read policy and see if you can afford this provider before her paid off times comes.
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Old 12-07-2009, 01:24 PM
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Everyone looks at the amount of money they think we are bringing in each week before taxes. But no one is thinking of the extra hours that we put in per day/week. I have kids in care for 11 hours a day. Parents pay for the time the kid is in care but no one thinks of the extra hours that we put in when kids are not incare. When you think of the amount of hours you work & make compared to the hours we put in makes a huge difference. People do not get into child care because of the money they can make they get into it because they enjoy being with kids (atleast me anyway) DH would not mind me getting a job outside of the home due to the fact that he would not mind having to get this or that for the daycare, fix this or that for the daycare, & not have kids here when he leaves for work & gets home from work. Unless you are a provider you will never understand & just see the $$ signs that you do for the simple reason that you have no clue & no amount of trying to explain it will you get it unless you have been or are a provider.
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Old 12-09-2009, 09:21 AM
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You're right, as a parent who has never run a daycare out of my home, I really don't have an inside perspective on how much time and money you put into your business. However, expecting payment for a service that is not rendered is simply ludacris. (forgive my spelling, please) Paid vacations are for employees, not small business owners. The only time a small business owner turns a profit while they are away on vacation is if they have employees who are working to provide the product or service that brings in the profit while the owner is on vacation.

On the note of what is fair, what I meant was it just doesn't make any sense at all to be paid for services you did not provide. When I said that dc providers deserve a paid vacation, I meant that I understand how taxing your job can be. In a perfect world, everyone would work for a living, we would all have paid vacation and affordable health care and the list goes on... but it just doesn't work that way.
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Old 12-09-2009, 11:38 AM
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You're right, as a parent who has never run a daycare out of my home, I really don't have an inside perspective on how much time and money you put into your business. However, expecting payment for a service that is not rendered is simply ludacris. (forgive my spelling, please) Paid vacations are for employees, not small business owners. The only time a small business owner turns a profit while they are away on vacation is if they have employees who are working to provide the product or service that brings in the profit while the owner is on vacation.

On the note of what is fair, what I meant was it just doesn't make any sense at all to be paid for services you did not provide. When I said that dc providers deserve a paid vacation, I meant that I understand how taxing your job can be. In a perfect world, everyone would work for a living, we would all have paid vacation and affordable health care and the list goes on... but it just doesn't work that way.
I really enjoy reading your posts and mostly agree with you...except on this one...and I don't even charge for vacation! Anyway, my final point is this...

You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but for every parent that has a problem paying for vacation there are two more who are able and happy to do so. There are parents who are fortunate enough to look first at the program and the provider and put costs second. I know not everyone is that fortunate, but for providers who cater to the group that can, more power to them!
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:41 PM
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Everyone looks at the amount of money they think we are bringing in each week before taxes. But no one is thinking of the extra hours that we put in per day/week. I have kids in care for 11 hours a day. Parents pay for the time the kid is in care but no one thinks of the extra hours that we put in when kids are not incare. When you think of the amount of hours you work & make compared to the hours we put in makes a huge difference. People do not get into child care because of the money they can make they get into it because they enjoy being with kids (atleast me anyway) DH would not mind me getting a job outside of the home due to the fact that he would not mind having to get this or that for the daycare, fix this or that for the daycare, & not have kids here when he leaves for work & gets home from work. Unless you are a provider you will never understand & just see the $$ signs that you do for the simple reason that you have no clue & no amount of trying to explain it will you get it unless you have been or are a provider.
What you described is called "owning and operating a small business".

I challenge you to find me any successful small business operator who doesn't deal with these same things every day.

If you really want to feel sorry for someone, take a look at farming....especially dairy operations. They can't "close"....those cows gotta be milked, every morning, every evening, regardless of personal plans, weather, emergencies, etc.
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Old 12-09-2009, 12:51 PM
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You're right, as a parent who has never run a daycare out of my home, I really don't have an inside perspective on how much time and money you put into your business. However, expecting payment for a service that is not rendered is simply ludacris. (forgive my spelling, please) Paid vacations are for employees, not small business owners. The only time a small business owner turns a profit while they are away on vacation is if they have employees who are working to provide the product or service that brings in the profit while the owner is on vacation.

On the note of what is fair, what I meant was it just doesn't make any sense at all to be paid for services you did not provide. When I said that dc providers deserve a paid vacation, I meant that I understand how taxing your job can be. In a perfect world, everyone would work for a living, we would all have paid vacation and affordable health care and the list goes on... but it just doesn't work that way.
Whether you think it is ludicrous or not is completely your opinion. However, if a parent signed a form stating they would pay for holidays it seems quite immature to complain about it now. I am a childcare provider & I don't charge for holidays or vacations & the parents I provide care for do get paid for those holidays (they are teachers).

Last edited by Michael; 12-09-2009 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 12-09-2009, 01:58 PM
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I agree to things on here, except for the paid vacation. I left a job after 5 yrs. and had 5 weeks vac. paid, it was 20 days and I only worked 4 days a week.
Everyone deserves and earns a paid vacation, no matter what type of job you do. Being a daycare provider, we have no sick days, 401 K, insurance, bonuses, personal days, etc......
I always have daycare friends as back up if they need good care, when I am gone!!!
Happy Holidays to everyone!!!
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:23 PM
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Food and utilities aren't the only big expenses. I don't know about most of you, but I spend quite a bit every month on new toys and activities plus art supplies. We go through paint and paper around here like there is no tomorrow. It really adds up.

Also, the wear and tear on the house is insane. Forget about having anything nice unless it's in a room where the daycare kids aren't allowed access.
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Old 12-09-2009, 04:35 PM
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I totally agree with you!!! I go thru one black and white, and one color ink every month!!! One ream of printer paper, one pkg. scrapbook paper, one pkg. const. paper, all the craft supplies, paint, markers, colors, coloring books, pencils, erasers, one box of kleenex at least once a month, sometimes twice a month, hand sanitizer, soap one a month, toilet paper at least one huge bag of double rolls once a month- the list goes on and on>>>>
Plus all the food, wear and tear on toys, books, on your house period!!!!!

Last edited by momma2girls; 12-10-2009 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 12-10-2009, 03:35 AM
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I totally agree ladies. There are cost involved that parents just totally take for granted. While yes, we can deduct these cost at the end of the year, we still have to take the $$$ out of our weekly budget to purchase them.

As far as utilities, if I was working outside my home, I would put my thermostat back to 65 and leave for the day. Not when I am doing daycare, it is up at a comfortable temp, mostly because parents don't dress their children appropriately for the temps (such as yesterday a 1 1/2 yr old was here wilth sleeveless top and it was a wind chill of 8). I have figured it out (to the best of my ability), and I use the MOST heat, electricity and water, the 10.75 hours I am open for daycare. I do not get to deduct that whole cost, some yes, but to sit down and figure it out, not all. So while I do agree there are good tax breaks, in the end, we providers still have to buy each week those supplies for our business and that comes out of our weekly paycheck.
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Old 12-10-2009, 05:53 AM
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Plus most employers take out for SS & Medicaid (which they pay part of) we have to pay the full amount in each at the end of the yr.
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Old 12-11-2009, 12:31 AM
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Plus most employers take out for SS & Medicaid (which they pay part of) we have to pay the full amount in each at the end of the yr.
You only pay on what you profit, though. Not on your gross revenue.

After you get done deducting all your "expenses", there's not much (if anything) left to pay taxes, SS, Medicare, Fica, etc on.

Comparatively, if you were working a full time job, you'd pay much, much more into those programs (and that's not even counting the employer's contribution).
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Old 12-11-2009, 06:32 PM
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I agree to things on here, except for the paid vacation. I left a job after 5 yrs. and had 5 weeks vac. paid, it was 20 days and I only worked 4 days a week.
Everyone deserves and earns a paid vacation, no matter what type of job you do. Being a daycare provider, we have no sick days, 401 K, insurance, bonuses, personal days, etc......
I always have daycare friends as back up if they need good care, when I am gone!!!
Happy Holidays to everyone!!!
I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. Not every job provides paid vacation, 401k, insurance, bonuses or any of the other benefits you mentioned. To assume that this is the case for everyone who has the need for daycare is a little small-minded. And those daycare friends who provide back-up care for you charge a fee, do they not? So that still leaves the parents paying *double* for the one service.

I have a lot of respect for you and normally agree with most of your posts, but this issue is just rubbing me the wrong way. I am so grateful that I don't have this issue with my current daycare.

Yes, I agree that if a parent signs a contract agreeing to pay for a week of paid vacation, they have no right to complain. However, it is my opinion that paid vacation for childcare providers is unethical. If your dc parents agree to it and you're fortunate enough to have it, then good for you, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 12-11-2009, 07:34 PM
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What makes sense to alot of us, may not make sense to you!
All my parents and many many out there agree we should be paid vac. and it is in our contract that they signed and agreed to. If any parent doesn't agree to this, they can find good daycare elsewhere. When I was working as a parent, I paid my daycare vacation time as well!!!!
I am not saying every parent should agree to these terms and like them. If they do not agree or like these terms, they have to find good daycare, that doesn't have benefits, paid Holidays, pay when they are not there, and vac. which here, that leaves very few!!
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Old 12-11-2009, 09:39 PM
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I'm sorry, but this makes absolutely no sense. Not every job provides paid vacation, 401k, insurance, bonuses or any of the other benefits you mentioned. To assume that this is the case for everyone who has the need for daycare is a little small-minded. And those daycare friends who provide back-up care for you charge a fee, do they not? So that still leaves the parents paying *double* for the one service.

I have a lot of respect for you and normally agree with most of your posts, but this issue is just rubbing me the wrong way. I am so grateful that I don't have this issue with my current daycare.

Yes, I agree that if a parent signs a contract agreeing to pay for a week of paid vacation, they have no right to complain. However, it is my opinion that paid vacation for childcare providers is unethical. If your dc parents agree to it and you're fortunate enough to have it, then good for you, but it still doesn't make sense to me.
Why do you see it as unethical? Because the provider isn't working? It doesn't make sense to you b/c you are not a provider. I'm sure you would feel differently if YOU were said provider. Childcare providers in my area clear less than $2.50/hr per child. I personally only bring in about $160/week but then I only care for one family whose children are at my home in varying degrees (for @ 50 hrs). I have been on both sides of this also. I used to WOH & paid a home daycare provider to watch my two children at the time. While she didn't ask for paid holidays I gladly paid her a big bonus over the Christmas season. Did I truly have the $$ to do so? Absolutely not! I worked at a small public library for peanuts but I felt like she did so much for my children that she deserved it. My husband's job, although decent, was not enough for our growing family to make ends meet which is why I worked. She was the most important person in my kids' life other than me & my husband. Why shouldn't I treat her special & give her the extra attention that most people give to their kids' teachers, beauticians & others who provide a special service? To me that meant paying her even when she wasn't watching my kids. While I haven't used a daycare provider myself in about 6 yrs I still keep in touch with our old provider. I understand you are a single mom (I think, I'm sorry if that is incorrect) & you totally may not be able to do so. I do hope you show some form of appreciation though to your provider by doing something small even if it isn't with a hefty pricetag. I don't charge my family over the holidays or for vacation either but I'm still hoping that they appreciate me enough to give me something extra, even if it isn't a check!
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Old 12-12-2009, 06:17 AM
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Thanks for putting your comments in!!! It's alot different when you are the childcare provider on the other side of things. You have some really good comments!!!!! Thanks for everything!!! Happy Holidays to you!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-13-2009, 06:40 AM
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When I was on the other side, I always did nice things for my daycare provider!! I paid her vac. holidays, I brought in little goodies that I made for the daycare, always brought a birthday snack in, gave her little notes saying how we appreciated her, and how much my daughter loved coming there, and gave her a very nice Xmas present, etc. I trusted her, and I wanted her to know how much she was appreciated!!!
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:47 AM
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Red face Holidays and sick days

I have a contract and in it it states that I will be taking 3 vacation weeks a year in which they will need to find alternative care. I do not charge them for these days. Also the days are set for the year in January so they can make arrangements well in advance. Also I give each family 2 sick/emergency days a year when they can call off without prior knowledge, and they get 2 weeks vacation that they can choose at there leisure.

I think this is a fair policy, and yet I still had one client/parent tell me that wasn't enough time. Um excuse me thats a total of 5 weeks off! Goes to show you can't make everyone happy all the time!!
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:57 AM
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I agree to things on here, except for the paid vacation. I left a job after 5 yrs. and had 5 weeks vac. paid, it was 20 days and I only worked 4 days a week.
Everyone deserves and earns a paid vacation, no matter what type of job you do. Being a daycare provider, we have no sick days, 401 K, insurance, bonuses, personal days, etc......
I always have daycare friends as back up if they need good care, when I am gone!!!
Happy Holidays to everyone!!!
I agree. Since I charge in advance for the SPACE whether they choose to use it or not, I have several moms who get 10 or more paid holidays per year, accrue paid time off and get paid vacation time. They still bring the kids to daycare and get in their "mental health days", but without taking a few paid holidays or a few days vacation, where is our break- and who can afford to take unpaid time? It may seem like we make a lot of money, depending on enrollment- but most decent daycare programs put a lot back into their materials, supplies, and the food program covers only a little over half of food costs, especially as food has gone up. The "tax benefits" are OK, but not as great as people think. I get to deduct paper towels and cleaning supplies at 30-40%, but the actual daycare usage is at least twice that. The same applies to electric and heat- My family is only awake with lights on a couple hours a day- the rest is daycare- but only deducted at 35-40% For every $500 I make, at least $150 is owed for SS medicare & taxes, another $100 in expenses- dividing between each child daycare insurance, curriculum and supply costs, increase in elec or heat bills (doors open & closing all day in winter), training expense, childproofing, excess food costs, etc etc. and I make 1/2 of what clients think I do- alll while working a 10-12 hr day, wear & tear on the house and inconvenience to our families.
This isn't about griping about a job we hate- most of us do it because of our dedication to kids we LOVE, we just want to feel appreciated for it and be treated as professionals, entitled to the same things- like paid time off with our families etc, that our clients enjoy. And thats really the crux of it- parents like to feel that we work for them- and that our work- "babysitting" is easy and has little value, instead of as childcare professionals entitled to the same benefits and respect as other people in the workforce.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:03 PM
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Very well said above. Thanks.
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Old 02-16-2010, 02:16 PM
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This is always a touchy subject, for both parents and providers. As a parent, I can understand not wanting to pay for childcare when your child is not attending because your provider is closed for vacation. It's an added expense that can be relatively high. BUT, providers do need time off with their own family, time to refresh and rejuvinate after a years worth of work that can be very taxing to the mind, body and spirit - as a provider, I realize this all to well.

Now, I do charge for holidays, vacation time (mine as well as parents) etc. BUT, I do my best to be accomodating to families. I plan to take all major holidays off, but when I check with parents, if two or more families are working on a holiday I remain open for all of my families. I provide 6 months notice for vacation closures, which is consistently the same time each year and my families typically schedule their vacations for the same dates, so they are not paying for another provider to care for their children, and I have been lucky enough to spend parts of my vacations with some of my families.

I keep my rates below average, while still charging enough to provide a healthy lifestyle for my own family. This enables parents to afford my weekly fee, and paying for vacation time is less burdensome than paying an additional $20 per week for the entire year - which is what would have to be done in order for me to not charge for vacation time.

As a provider, I have never felt it was a fair or even legitimite discussion to throw at parents all of our added expenses related to our business, or the fact that per child we recieve very minimal wages...it's not accurate, we do not work with one child, we work with a group of children and get paid for each of them, which adds up to a pretty decent wage. And I don't look at it as an hourly thing either....we recieve a salary... a set amount, just like many others in many other fields, who also work 11-15 hours per day. It's not the parents fault that some providers do not have enough children to make a higher salary, and it's not fair to make them feel as though they do not pay enough because of it.

I also look at expenses like this. If I worked outside the home I'd be paying for commuting, plus spending up to an hour of time driving there, and then driving back (adds two hours to an 8 hour day), I'd be paying for clothing for my job, which I do now, but not nearly as much as when I was in management. I'd be paying for some of my lunches at restaruants....not always, but I would eat out with coworkers from time to time. Those are job related expenses, just like expenses related to caring for children. I'd also be dealing with co-worker draa and a boss whom I may or may not get along with.

BUT, I get to stay home, raise my own children, call the shots with my business and get to do the only job I have ever LOVED, make a difference in the lives of children.
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Old 02-18-2010, 01:04 PM
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Crystal, I think the way you run your daycare/business is very fair and if you were out where I lived I would be asking you if you had any open spaces. I believe that the way you are fair about your business is probably why you are successful and maybe it that some other providers who run their business differently, is part of the reason as to why they have less children to care for which inturn affects their revenue. A few daycare providers should take some notes from you. Kudos to you.
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Old 02-18-2010, 03:36 PM
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Thank you.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:15 AM
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As a daycare provider, why can't we take paid vacation? You do.
You run your own business, similar to a sole proprietorship. I get paid days off because they are part of my deal with my company. If I take a day off, MY COMPANY gets someone else to get the work done.

The situation you are desribing is ludicrous. You run a business. If you ran a McDonalds, or restaurant or some other business, would you expect the people that eat there to pay even though they didnt get a meal?

This kind of attitude towards entitlement is immoral on all fronts and to believe that because you CHOSE to run a business out of your home you are entitled to ANY benefits.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:57 AM
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A few years ago I raised my rates 3 dollars a week. I simply take 3 dollars a week from their fees, put it in the bank, take off a week per year and pay myself for that time. =-) They pay me for my vacation without realizing it. =-)
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Old 03-24-2010, 02:01 PM
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You run your own business, similar to a sole proprietorship. I get paid days off because they are part of my deal with my company. If I take a day off, MY COMPANY gets someone else to get the work done.

The situation you are desribing is ludicrous. You run a business. If you ran a McDonalds, or restaurant or some other business, would you expect the people that eat there to pay even though they didnt get a meal?

This kind of attitude towards entitlement is immoral on all fronts and to believe that because you CHOSE to run a business out of your home you are entitled to ANY benefits.
Holdy cow! How funny are you?! Immoral??? Hahahahah!!! You are welcome to choose a provider who doesn't charge for vacation time...certainly your right but THAT is where your rights end. My business, my rules.

And, for the record...When you pay tuition for private school, or college, you DO NOT get a discount when school is closed for whatever reason....are they immoral too or just running a PROFITABLE busines?
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Old 03-24-2010, 03:55 PM
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I agree. Since I charge in advance for the SPACE whether they choose to use it or not, I have several moms who get 10 or more paid holidays per year, accrue paid time off and get paid vacation time. They still bring the kids to daycare and get in their "mental health days", but without taking a few paid holidays or a few days vacation, where is our break- and who can afford to take unpaid time? It may seem like we make a lot of money, depending on enrollment- but most decent daycare programs put a lot back into their materials, supplies, and the food program covers only a little over half of food costs, especially as food has gone up. The "tax benefits" are OK, but not as great as people think. I get to deduct paper towels and cleaning supplies at 30-40%, but the actual daycare usage is at least twice that. The same applies to electric and heat- My family is only awake with lights on a couple hours a day- the rest is daycare- but only deducted at 35-40% For every $500 I make, at least $150 is owed for SS medicare & taxes, another $100 in expenses- dividing between each child daycare insurance, curriculum and supply costs, increase in elec or heat bills (doors open & closing all day in winter), training expense, childproofing, excess food costs, etc etc. and I make 1/2 of what clients think I do- alll while working a 10-12 hr day, wear & tear on the house and inconvenience to our families.
This isn't about griping about a job we hate- most of us do it because of our dedication to kids we LOVE, we just want to feel appreciated for it and be treated as professionals, entitled to the same things- like paid time off with our families etc, that our clients enjoy. And thats really the crux of it- parents like to feel that we work for them- and that our work- "babysitting" is easy and has little value, instead of as childcare professionals entitled to the same benefits and respect as other people in the workforce.
Very well said!!
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jen View Post
Holdy cow! How funny are you?! Immoral??? Hahahahah!!! You are welcome to choose a provider who doesn't charge for vacation time...certainly your right but THAT is where your rights end. My business, my rules.

And, for the record...When you pay tuition for private school, or college, you DO NOT get a discount when school is closed for whatever reason....are they immoral too or just running a PROFITABLE busines?
Jen... All due respect, really, but this is not a fair comparison. When you pay tuition for school, you are paying for the education. If the school is closed for whatever reason, they have to have some sort of make-up time to ensure that the education is given. There are laws governing education, stating that there have to be a certain number of days attendance in order to advance. And you're right--your business, your rules.

Laundryduchess... I LOVE your idea to raise rates $3/week. That is a very minimal amount for parents to have to come up with every week (and I'm sure that they feel you are worth at least that much more). What you choose to do with the pay you get from your dc parents is up to you and creating a vacation fund for yourself is fantastic.
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:52 PM
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Jen... All due respect, really, but this is not a fair comparison. When you pay tuition for school, you are paying for the education. If the school is closed for whatever reason, they have to have some sort of make-up time to ensure that the education is given. There are laws governing education, stating that there have to be a certain number of days attendance in order to advance. And you're right--your business, your rules.
Actually, when my middle child was in preschool I paid tuition, and when preschool was closed for bad weather or once because of a death in the family of the director, I wasn't (nor did I expect to be) reimbursed. The same goes for college...when you show up for class and it's canceled because the professor is ill or class is canceled for bad weather you don't have "make up" days nor are your reimbursed.

I may have already posted this earlier, but I personally don't charge for my vacation time. It just drives me absolutely bonkers when people complain about the policies of the provider AFTER they have signed the contract.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:48 PM
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I agree that daycare providers can charge whatever they want too. Myself I only charge for the 6 major holidays and I do not charge for any vacation I take or any vacation they take (providing they give me the 2 week notic), I do not charge for any day that I am sick either. When my kids were in daycare I paid whether they were there or not even if she called in sick, I ended up taking my kids out of there because I couldn't afford paying her and someone else. Bottom line I signed the contract so I didnt' complain, I just left, well actually quit and stayed home with my kids. If you signed the contract then you need to pay, if you agree with what she charges then I'd find some where else that doesn't charge those. I think most to all daycare providers charge for the Holdidays.
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Old 12-27-2010, 01:35 PM
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Smile wow!! you are just like us!

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Hi,
In regards to the post from:

frustrated in ny
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It doesn't seem confusing to me, every business that pays their employees vacation or sick leave and every business that doesn't pay for it, every one of the businesses have to get someone to replace each employee while they are gone (sick or on vacation) and pay the replacements salary from the businesses own money (not from their employee that is gone), or they have to split up the work between other workers, who then can't do all of their own work, while taking on extra work from the employee who is gone.

Providers do not work for parents, we are not employed by parents. Our daycare is our own business, we make our own policies, we make our own contract, we decide what we want to charge. There is no legal guideline as to what we charge, because we can charge whatever we want. In my state, daycare and cost of living is expensive. Infant rates range from as low as $500 (stay at home moms) to as high as $1200 (and even higher). There are providers (private-stay at home moms) that even charge more and they get it, I think that is crazy, but parents do pay that and if they want to pay that, it is their choice. Licensed (and unlicensed-stay at home moms) providers can charge any amount (I'm pretty sure in every state), we can take off as many days as we want. I can take off

The thing parents forget is when a parent takes vacation, sick days, etc... we can't just fill that spot so we don't lose money. If a parent takes 2 weeks, that will be about $250-$300 (depending on what state you live in), a provider can just add $25 a month and get paid for the vacation time after all. At home daycares and centers, they charge a flat rate (in my state and most or all others), to keep your childs spot reserved for you, most do not give you your money back (for full time flat rates) and keep your spot vacant, while losing money.

It is up to each provider to choose what they want to charge and take off. I have had my daycare for 10 years (with manylong term parents). My daughters run it with me (one goes to full time college-luckily a few miles away and the other will go sometime soon). So, our daycare has an advantage of 3 family members, for more one on one attention. We provide more than just about any other daycare or center.
In the last 10 years, we have provided or done the following:

We have never called in sick (even though it's in our covtract).
We have never taken or charged for any vacation (and 2 weeks paid is in our covtract).
We have rarely sent a sick child home, maybe 12 times (even though it's in our covtract).
We used to be open for many years, 365 days a year with 0 time off, many, many times for more than 300, 400 and even 500 hours a month (even though it's in our covtract).
We used to let low income parents keep their co-payment up to $70, provide free over time, free nights out, paid for b-day parties for low income parents, given many rides (due to no car, break downs, etc...), many times we provided long term care (for parents out of state vacations-aslong as 2 full weeks, hospitalizations for surgeries and accidents, c-sectons, broken neck, etc...), we have bought countless thousands of $ for clothes, coats, shoes, etc..., paid rent, toys, bikes and more. We used to spend $50-$100 on each child for every b-day and Christmas, as well as for my own children and then like many providers, their dad skipped out. We still do all the other non financial things and all the free nights out, overtime, late fees...........until a parent abuses me, then I charge.

This is our business and we decide what we charge, what hours we work, what we let slide and when we have had enough abuse.

We fix so many problem children (enotionally, physically, biying, eating and anger problems, etc..), children that are 3 1/2-5. Now we have a 4 1/2 yr old that was wetting and pooping in pull ups, literal drooling (flowing constantly, all day long, every day), walking like a much younger child (like a special need child on his toes, with hands dangling) couldn't say more than a couple understandable words. It took TWO days to teach him how to keep swallowing, it took 1 statement of no more going in your pants at my house and he never did again, but he did for 6 more months at home (parents even acknowledged he did it intentionally). Some parents won't try or help us out. We get so many children like that, it's unbelievable, it is extremely hard, so time consuming, tedious, frustrating that these parents let this go, don't know better, but don't get help or are lazy. I can't not take these children, I don't want them to slip through the cracks. I have THREE of these children (delayed due to parents) in my care. I get many parents that won't accept there is something wrong with their child/ren (it is extremely obvious) and they fight me or the system or the steps needed and we have to fix them ourselves.We have gone through so many children with problems, I want to start insisting on getting special needs pay (I never have). Sorry, just venting. I'm serious, it happens a lot.
I used to do a daycare network, hooking up parents and providers, helping parents feel comfortable and at ease. I don't do it anymore (very time consuming), I had tons of parents wanting to use my daycare. Sometimes I want to quit and take the easy kids, I used to hear how hard it was to find daycare.

Thanks for reading, have a great Christmas

Wow, you sound just like me!!!
We do most of the same things, except pay their rent!
I really feel for these families especially the single moms, we are like a big family, but it seems that the parents that are on Calworks are the most easy going and accepting.
The parents that are cash paying sometimes get on my nerves!!!
We put the kids in ballet , karate and gymnastics because we want these kids to have these opportunities . We also have special needs kids, but we live in Ca. and we have't been paid in a couple months for some families, and others , VERY late , for example, I have not been paid since late November because the governor (Arnold Schwarzenegger) decided to line item veto 80,000 children from care. Our day care is our only source of income)
So, My own kids had no presents for Christmas (by the time I realized there would be no money , it was too late for toys for tots and help from the church ) and I'm on vacation this week but I have no money. Oh well, it makes me feel good to know that there is more people like us helping these families and loving these kids like our own.
The kids are the reason I do this .They are precious!!!
Vicki
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Old 01-09-2011, 02:20 PM
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Default Providers Vacation/Holidays

Hello,

I am a day care provider. I do not charge my parents if I close down for vacation. However, I do charge for Holidays. If the holiday falls on a weekend I do not charge. I try to be fair to my clients. I do understand we are in hard times right now. Our weekly expenses do not change, the food program reimburses for a portion of what we spent throughout the month on food. The money that we laid out all month for food, that money is now allocated towards the electric bill or the car payment, maybe even the mortgage or rent that may be due.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:50 PM
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That's per child....if you have 5 kids in your care, that's $400-$750 per week.

How many people make that kind of money with no commute, can wear sweats and T's to work, and do their laundry/dusting/dishes/etc on the clock?

Add to that, you don't have to pay DC bills for your own kids, and that ain't cheap.
But how much of that is pure profit? I don't end up with that kind of money! After rent, utilties, groceries, curriculum, programming, toys, equipment, supplies (from crayons to toilet paper), repairs to the wear and tear on the building, a helper, daycare insurance (state required), etc. that $400/week ends up being less than $100 per week and that's if we're really lucky that week(!) to spend on my own family's needs and bills (car payments, health bills -since providers don't have insurance through their "company"-, household portion of rent, phone, electric, gas, your kids extra curricular expenses, on and on the list goes as all families know)
And as for your wife having so many other families calling all the time for care, send them my way! Daycare has 4 full timers (licenced for 12), have had to make do with part time and drop ins since beginning of summer! That's because of so many families losing jobs and others not being able to afford daycare and making alternate arrangements with relatives. Can't terminate the families that won't pay on time, whose child is impossible, etc. Can't enforce policies for fear the family would get mad and leave, cutting the daycare income even more... your wife's daycare must be doing really well! That's great that things work out that great for you guys. It's NOT that way for us (or most other provider's I'm sure). I think it's all according to your location and what the job market is like there as for how much a povider actually makes. In this area the providers make just enough to keep the daycare running. Not much of a profit. If someone took a week off for vacation without having to pay for their daycare spot, the provider would be very lucky to come out even that week. I say this without any exaggeration for my area.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:06 PM
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have you actually taken the amount of hours that your wife works, over head expenses and broken it down? I make about the same as my husband who works at the hosptial in the ER as a tech. However it takes me 86 hours to make the same pay he makes in 24 hours a week. Also my line of work is 10 times harder than his.....
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:44 AM
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Does she not deserve time off with pay? I have 14 Holidays and one weeks vacation in my contract. I have 17 years experience, and will finish up my degree in Early Childhood Education this May. At the time I make close to minimum wage. I do not feel guilty in the least to include time paid off in my contract.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:19 AM
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[quote=You're comparing daycare to being a plumber's service call fee, but you don't have to travel to the child's location to begin the service (time and travel costs that are factored into that service call), nor do you bring all the tools (toys) to that location.

Not trying to knock you here, but getting a master plumbers license is nothing like a DC license....apples to oranges. Your handyman is a closer comparison, but in both those trades, work is hit and miss-the phone may ring off the hook, and it may lay silent for weeks. It's not steady, day in, day out work like DC.[/QUOTE]

Oh.....now you've got me going! No, we don't travel to the child's location yet we do shop weekly for groceries to feed the kids (I serve only very nutritious meals that cost a great deal more than a sandwich), shop for good quality materials that cost an arm and a leg (go to lakeshorelearning.com and see for yourself!).....I don't buy "just enough".....but more than enough to rotate to prevent boredome. Oh and there's the "field trips" like Discovery Museum who come to my home and costs a pretty penny. I pay liability insurance, pay for all the wear and tear on our houses, and MUCH higher utility bills, not to mention what it takes for us to stay in compliance with DHS and the Fire Marshal. As we speak, I need to install another wired in smoke alarm and two emergency lights. I could go on and on......Good quality childcare takes MONEY. Most of us make little over Minimum wage! And....you think DC is steady work? I've been down to 2 kids thanks to our economy.......steady?

Bottom line.....I provide quality care and the parents in my program appreciate it and have never complained about paying my Holidays or Vacations. My fees are low ($100/week)......It all comes out in the wash....I could take away my paid H and V but my fees would raise.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:41 AM
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Crystal, I think the way you run your daycare/business is very fair and if you were out where I lived I would be asking you if you had any open spaces. I believe that the way you are fair about your business is probably why you are successful and maybe it that some other providers who run their business differently, is part of the reason as to why they have less children to care for which inturn affects their revenue. A few daycare providers should take some notes from you. Kudos to you.
While I am sure Crystal is a wonderful caregiver who runs her own quality program....you should never base your decision on who cares for your children solely on expected fees.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:51 AM
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That's per child....if you have 5 kids in your care, that's $400-$750 per week.

How many people make that kind of money with no commute, can wear sweats and T's to work, and do their laundry/dusting/dishes/etc on the clock?

Add to that, you don't have to pay DC bills for your own kids, and that ain't cheap.
I find this very offensive. Come to my house and you will see a quality program. There is no time for personal business because i am busy teaching. I don't do dishes or other housework on the clock unless it's childcare related. I don't wear sweats and T's, I wear a uniform. I work over 10 hours a day. I have a degree in Early Childhood Education. And guess what.....I made less than $10,000 last year! You bet I deserve vacation and holiday pay!
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:58 AM
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Jen, I have a question. My kids are currently attending a local daycare facility. In their policies it states which days of the year the daycare will be closed. There was Thanksgiving, but no mention of the day after Thanksgiving. To my surprise I went to drop off my children the day after Thanksgiving and it was closed. Not only was it not in the policies, but it wasn't posted anywhere. I assumed it was a normal day because many people do have to go back to work. I requested to be refunded for that day because it was not in the stated closure dates for the year. I was wondering if there is laws or regulations that oultine closures? I couldn't find anyhting anywhere. I asked you this question because I noticed that you were an owner.
I think you deserve a refund as well. I noticed that in my own policies I neglected to mention what would happen on snow days. This week the county schools have been closed. I neglected to say that I stay open for these days. It's my own fault.....so I did not charge for those days. I will be updating my policies soon!
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:01 PM
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I did not read every post as I just spent way too long reading the first half.

I'm not responding about ANYTHING I read but the original post.

This is my opinion........

As a provider, I do not expect you to pay for my holidays. However, I expect a monthly fee regardless of days/hours used. This is so that I know how much income I have coming in, and I can adjust my bill payments and expenses accordingly.

If... I think I'm getting 100 dollars this friday, and I go out and buy something on sale on my credit card, fully expecting to pay that back on friday, and you decide you are not bringing your child next week for the week because you are taking a last minute vacation, well, hmm......What am I going to do now?

If...you become sick tonight, and you won't be bringing your child for the rest of the week, should I have to then take a loss in my income even though I was ready, willing and capable of work today tomorrow and the next day?

If I decide to shut down for a week because of a family emergency, and I have to fly to _____ to deal with funeral arrangements or such, are you going to pay me for bereavment (no idea how to spell that) like most employees do? How about for Jury duty? This is time I was not expecting to have off, this is time where I will incur EXTRA expenses that I wasn't originally planning on. As a business owner, I can't expect myself to get paid when there is no money to pay this.

Most people on average can afford to put aside 10% of their paycheque into savings, but we are already putting aside approx 20% of our paycheques to put towards taxes (well some of us anyway) at tax time. If you are paying me 100/wk, that's 20 dollars I'm putting aside minimum. That means I have 80 dollars for the week to pay bills, buy gas, buy groceries FOR YOUR CHILD, feed myself and my family, etc etc. We also do not get group benefits, so should we choose to buy into benefits we are doing so at a much higher rate. We still need to go to the dentist, and fill prescriptions and what not. Ever consider what your prescription would be without your coverage?

Some daycare providers don't have their service maxed out, I know I don't. Currently I am trying to fill my full time spot. But I have 3 children of my own, allowed a max of 4 children INCLUDING my own, and only one of mine is in school full time. SO I only have 2 spots available, and I have to turn families down because I have one under 2 and one over 2 slots available and theirs are 3 and 5 yrs old, or something like that. So I can't just take anybody who wants to use my service.

So to sum it all up, no I don't expect you to pay me for my vacation off, but just remember when you're huffing and puffing about having to pay for days that you aren't bringing your child, that I work for WELL BELOW minimum wage. I often get a card for xmas, I feed, care for, and love your child, instill values in your child that will last a lifetime, I teach your child manners, maybe even how to use the potty, I SPEND MORE WAKING HOURS IN A DAY WITH YOUR CHILD THAN YOU, so please just respect the policies I have set out. If you signed it, you agreed to it, end of story. If you find that I charge too much, I'd like you to look around and see what other people are charging before you complain or walk away.

If everyone looked at it like some make it seem, like we chose to work from home, and watch kids for next to nothing, and yada yada, then there would be no daycare providers. Good luck finding a center with 1 opening for your child.
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Old 01-14-2011, 04:32 PM
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Well to the OP, think on the bright side. Some people have it worse. I work for a dc provider and while she charges parents a flat rate which includes paid holidays, we dc employees don't reap any of the benefits. Sick days, vacation days, holidays, snow days, funerals, doctors appts., come out of our own pockets - which means no pay. Forget about medical benefits. We work hard (changing diapers, wiping noses, cleaning toilets, feeding and teaching children from infants through K) and most of us make minimum wage. And if we don't like it, there is someone who will gladly take our job. Me... I'll take it because it pays some bills and I love the children. I have neighbors losing their homes because they can't find work....

Oh and if we DO take an unpaid vacation, no one is hired to replace us. The remaining employees usually do double duty to pick up the slack.

But I have to go with what others have said that if you sign a contract, you must abide by it. If you don't agree, just look elsewhere.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:21 PM
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That's per child....if you have 5 kids in your care, that's $400-$750 per week.

How many people make that kind of money with no commute, can wear sweats and T's to work, and do their laundry/dusting/dishes/etc on the clock?

Add to that, you don't have to pay DC bills for your own kids, and that ain't cheap.
You almost sound like one of the complaining parents that can NEVER understand the costs associated with childcare. I'm not sure where you live or why your wife has no investment costs but where I live GREAT preschools (now beginning at age 2) and daycares are EVERYWHERE making it very difficult to keep the "commodity of kids" coming in. I must say that I'm suprised...you don't sound like you have any idea of what costs are associated with being a provider. Don't you guys have insurance (although ours is probably more expensive in NY), food, activities, curriculum costs, cleaning costs, STAFF? I have 5 children but pay $2,000 a month in staff alone because unfortunately the kids aren't dropped off and picked up at my door so I need other people to help. Whatever your situation is, it certainly isn't the same for everyone. People ..mostly parents...on this site seem to be really narrow minded. Seriously. - WOW you make $750 a week without even considering the costs? That's $3,000 a month, before taxes, insurance, food, curriculum, cleaning, STAFF... SERIOUSLY?!
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Old 05-16-2011, 01:29 PM
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Here's where I think some of the childcare providers are getting confused about vacation and other paid time off:

The parents are merely customers. *They* are not business owners or anyone's employers.

The obligation of the parents is only for the service that the childcare provider provides.

Only employers may have an obligation to pay vacation and sick time (and even holidays) if that is part of the hiring parameters, and only if that is agreed to when the employee is hired (which, I'll remind you, is not always the case).

Childcare providers are in business for themselves. That, like any other home-based business, means that you have no one above you - no one to tell you what to do, and no one to bail you out when you're in a jam. That's the downside of owning your own business - any kind of business, regardless of how much money you make. When you go into business for yourself, you realize the costs and count the rewards, and if you fail to do this, then you deal with the consequences without projecting them onto someone else. It sounds harsh, but that's reality. To sit there and throw out every penny and justify your cause is childish. I don't care if you make $10 a week at the end of the week. That is not my problem. I am the customer; I am not your employer and I do not own a business where you are my employee, therefore I have no obligation whatsoever to pay for your time not worked.

It is interesting to note that many of you said you charge a low weekly rate and can barely make ends meet, therefore, you deserve a paid vacation and sick time. This is illogical. What you charge is not the fault of the parent. Plus, it sounds to me like you are charging less than you should as a way to entice parents into your service and then pull a fast one by expecting them to pay for your time off - services not rendered (even if you whip out the contract and gloss over the fine print). It would be more honest for you to charge up front what you need to charge to cover for all expenses to operate your business -including any potential time off - meaning instead of $100 weekly fee, it should be more like $120 or something to that effect. And then any vacation or sick time would be $0 - or a moot point since parents are not obliged to cover you as if you were their employee.

You are not their employee. You are their service provider.

Anything beyond that is gravy - in both directions. Since this is a home-based business that involves more intimate psychological and emotional involvement than, say, a plumber who fixes your inanimate toilet, there are certain additional rewards that a childcare provider *might hope* for. But, gifting and sharing of the familial bond takes time and you have to develop trust and agreement between the parties. It is not something to be contracted by saying you must provide me with vacation pay and sick time.
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Old 05-16-2011, 02:41 PM
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The best way to help you understand is for you to run your own business/daycare. That usually clears up a lot of confusion. Usually a contract spells out the services rendered and it is not hidden the small print. The fact that paid holidays are a consistent expectation amongst providers must tell you something; it's a fair business practice.

Last edited by Michael; 05-16-2011 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 12-23-2011, 09:41 AM
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I struggle with this as well and I will tell you that it makes me downright ANGRY!!! I know for a fact that if I were working PART-TIME just as my child is going to daycare part-time {she is school aged and only attends 2 hours per day} I would not get paid vacation or paid sick time working only 2 hours a day!!!
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:46 PM
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Kgravino,

My answer to your original questions are...

Neither of you are the employee or employer. It's a sole proprietor (childcare provider/business owner) and a client (child's parent(s)). I assume that the childcare provider showed you a contract that listed the paid holidays/vacations that she takes. If so, when you read that contract, you had the option to either agree to them or not. If you did not agree to them, you did not have to hire her. You could have continued to look for a childcare provider who does not take paid days off. However, since you did choose to hire her, you really have no right to fuss about what you have already agreed to.
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Old 12-23-2011, 01:47 PM
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I'm so glad I have such appreciative parents. They GLADLY paid me for the four days I have off for the holidays, AND gave me nice bonuses to boot
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Old 12-26-2011, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Chickenhauler View Post
That's per child....if you have 5 kids in your care, that's $400-$750 per week.

How many people make that kind of money with no commute, can wear sweats and T's to work, and do their laundry/dusting/dishes/etc on the clock?

Add to that, you don't have to pay DC bills for your own kids, and that ain't cheap.
Sounds like you are jelous and would like a job in our field. I dare you!! And its not that easy we are watching multiple children and i find myself with no time for those things. hilarious
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:25 AM
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Sounds like you are jelous and would like a job in our field. I dare you!! And its not that easy we are watching multiple children and i find myself with no time for those things. hilarious
Kayla~ Chickenhauler (the person you quoted) is/was a Senior Member of this forum and his wife DOES run a daycare.

I am pretty sure he is familiar with the ins and outs of this business.....and that it isn't easy. (His post was in support of childcare.)
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Old 12-27-2011, 03:27 PM
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When I worked outside the home, I got 2 weeks of paid vacation, 5 paid sick days, and 5 personal days- all paid. I worked 8 hour days, 40 hours a week, and got a consistent 1 hour lunch break, with two 15 minute breaks a day. (I was also paid 3x's more than what I make as a provider- but that's the sacrafice that I made for my kids so I don't mind). I now run an in-home daycare, working 10 hour days, 50 hours a week. I don't get a lunch "break" at all. If my daycare kids are all asleep at the same time (IF), then I usually spend that time cleaning up from their messes. And IF everything happens to be clean, I still do not get a real "break," because I am still responsible for your child, and cannot fully relax with the weight of that responsibility on my shoulders. I work very hard wiping noses, kissing boo boo's, giving lots of hugs, teaching manners, and busting my tail everyday, all day, to provide the most caring environment for YOUR child while you are away at the office. I teach preschoolers how to read and write, babies how to crawl, walk, and sign, and most importantly, give each and every child a loving, safe, consistent environment while you are away trying to provide for your family too.

Are you seriously complaining about some paid holidays?

PS: A family vacation and break will reinvigorate your provider, and she will come back 100% better (better for your kids) when she gets back. You get what you pay for- do you really want to send your kids to a daycare where the provider doesn't get to take a real break or vacation? Would you want a surgeon operating on you after a 24 hour shift? Come on!
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Old 12-27-2011, 04:49 PM
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The best way to help you understand is for you to run your own business/daycare. That usually clears up a lot of confusion. Usually a contract spells out the services rendered and it is not hidden the small print. The fact that paid holidays are a consistent expectation amongst providers must tell you something; it's a fair business practice.
Exactly! I personally do not charge for my vacation but I give myself 20 days worth of vacay (or 4 weeks). I DO get paid for all stat holidays as well as 10 personal/sick days and if YOU the parent goes on vacation.

If YOU don't like it, find another provider. Pretty simple! Don't sign my contract and then tell me you think it's unfair. Don't compare me to other businesses either. I provide a service and with that service a contract is signed so essentially I can set the terms I want.
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Old 12-30-2011, 03:00 PM
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It is very very important to make sure that when you read your parent hand book you understand everything that is written in it. If there is ANY thing you do not understand or agree with you need to communicate that to your provider. It's your responsibility ask the questions bc they are already outlined for you. The provider has already put them forth for your consideration. Never sign something you do not agree with. By signing you are agree 100% to what is written and can not dispute it. They may seem unreasonable or unethical to you or other parents but there not unheard of. Ever provider has the right to ask for his or her own wants and each and ever parent has the right to disagree. You are entering into a contract that is binding so make sure you understand what you are agreeing to. Let me point out that taking care of children is one of the most thankless jobs ever provided yet many many do it because they LOVE it. Not because they have to. Many are not in it to make money. I would have to say that providers go above and beyond to care for their daycare families. If they are truly recognized by what they do for their child/ren they will pay vacation time bc those children are coming back to them safe and well loved. They do what they can to show appreciation in that they follow rules and guidelines set forth. Even sending cards and gifts. We deserve to have our families respect us. We really do love our families and try to be fair.
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Old 02-07-2012, 01:25 PM
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Here's my 2 cents: I don't charge for my personal days off, but do charge for holidays. I just recently added the holidays and my daycare parents expressed no regret in paying me for such. In fact, most said they were happy to. I try to be reasonable about the holidays and if the majority of my parents have to work a holiday (say... columbus day? lol), I'm not going to close. But, when everyone else is off with their paid holiday (because all my parents get paid holidays), I think they are A-ok with paying me for that day. Now, on my personal days off, I feel differently. I don't feel ok charging for that - especially when they may have to hire someone else for that day.
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Old 02-07-2012, 02:32 PM
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As a daycare provider, why can't we take paid vacation? You do.
Don't assume everyone gets paid vacation! That is so not the case. Plenty of people don't get paid vacations or sick time or any benefits at all.
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Old 02-15-2012, 08:19 AM
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As a child care provider - I charge for federal holidays only. I would NOT feel right charging parents for MY personal vacation or MY sick days.
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Old 02-15-2012, 10:29 AM
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I get paid holidays and vacations and have no problem whatsoever with that. My daycare parents are well informed with my practice. If they don't like it, they are welcome to take their business elsewhere. Its a benefit of running my own business, I make the rules.
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Old 02-15-2012, 01:57 PM
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I also get paid for statutory holidays. I don't charge for my own sick time or vacation (up to 3 weeks) but I do charge for stats. I get my first of the year this coming Monday!

My clients are all aware of my policies when they sign into care. There are plenty of other daycares in my area and many of them don't charge when the child does not attend. Parents here have options.
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Old 02-15-2012, 03:25 PM
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If I could figure out how to post a poll, I'd love to post one to see just how many of us owner/providers actually charge for paid time off and what type: Paid vacation, paid sick leave, paid holidays, paid personals, other.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure how to do it......
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:26 AM
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As a childcare provider....

I put in 50 hours a week on the clock with my families plus approximately 5 hours a week running errands/doing pre for the daycare itself. That's about 15 hours a week of overtime which I don't get paid for. In four weeks I put in approximately 60 hours of overtime, with no overtime pay.

I do not get a designated break in my 10 hour shifts.

I do not get yearly bonuses.

I do not get a benefit package.

I do not get offered a rrsp plan through work.

For this reason I take all stat holidays off with pay. I take 3 weeks of paid holidays per year. I also reserve 5 paid personal days per year that I can take as needed for a illness, a funeral, a appointment, etc...

I would never accept a family who had a problem with my paid time off and I do not allow anyone to get away without paying for my time off.

My contract states:

Upon the termination of your childcare space you will be required to pay out any paid holidays to myself that you currently owe. Since I am entitled to 3 weeks of paid holidays per year, if your child attended daycare for one year you will be required to pay for 3 weeks of my paid holidays or part of 3 weeks if I have not taken all 3 weeks of paid holidays. If your child attended daycare for 8 months you will be required to pay for 2 weeks of my paid holidays or part of 2 weeks if the I have not taken all 2 weeks of paid holidays. If your child attended daycare for 4 months you will be required to pay for 1 week of my paid holidays or part of 1 week if I have not taken all of 1 week of paid holidays.

Because of this paragraph families can not drop care with me the month before my scheduled holidays.

If I didn't get paid stats, paid holidays or paid personal days I would no longer run a daycare.

I opened a daycare because I love children, I didn't open a daycare because I wanted to be "less" than the rest of the world. I deserve my paid time off just like everyone else in the world. Honestly, I deserve overtime pay too, but we all know that's not likely.

P.S. I'm not bitter I'm just really firm on my stand.
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Old 02-20-2012, 11:01 AM
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People who are looking not to pay when their child are not present or do not want to pay for vacation day-offs for the provider need to seek the title "baby-sitter" to watch their children. Fact of the matter is that people will seek the cheapest route and will make excuses to justify their reasons. It makes you wonder what are their priorities? Many, not all, have treated my business as that of a baby-sitter until it's tax time, then I am a business again. If you are a home provider and you are caring for more than 3 children then you are required to have a license. It is this very reason that I explain to the parent that they are reserving a spot on the license when they sign a contract. No matter if they bring their child or not, if they want to keep their spot. Payment must be received. My daycare is incorporated, fully licensed and insured. Not all providers will meet these requirements. Let's focus on my daycare as for I cannot speak for the others. My rate is $125 per week per child(all ages). The hours of operation are from 6am to 6pm or in simpler terms 60 hours. This does not include the time for preperation nor the time for clean up, grocery shopping, paperwork, emails, phone calls, etc...I actually awake at 5am preparing for opening and do not finish my day until 7PM the hour after close for cleaning purposes. This will increase my work hours to 70 hours a week plus the hour it takes to buy groceries of supplies ( which we do on Sunday's, a day that we are closed) bringing the total to 71 hours a week dedicated to my business. This equates to $1.76 per hour that I am making-from one childs daycare spot for the week. My wife has a teaching degree and runs a structed enviroment for the children in an actual daycare facility in our home. Our facility is better than a few of the local business daycares (this coming from the parents in our daycare, a reason why they left previous daycares in the first place due to cleanliness, and a structured loving environment). Our license is that of a business license except that we run our business from our home. The license is called a group home daycare license. It is this very reason that we follow the same guidelines of those daycares and close the same days that they are closed. Meaning that we expect paid vacation days off. Don't fall into the understanding that just because we work from home that we can be classified as baby-sitters, but instead understand that we care for your children as if they were our own. What is your child's good health and well being worth to you? Honestly one shouldn't be worried about paying one of the most important people in your life a little bit extra each year. If that doesnt do it for you then chalk it up this way; Each year the licensed childcare provider is required by law to complete 15 plus hours of classes to keep them up-to-date on all of the state requirements and changes in the guidelines for a licensed facility/ home. This also keeps the provider and all of it's employees (my wife and I) motivated and educated to do their JOB. So, take those 15 plus hours and apply that extra "provider vacation" money to that. We work hard for what we have as does ANY licensed childcare provider and we deserve the wages that we make.
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Old 02-20-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
People who are looking not to pay when their child are not present or do not want to pay for vacation day-offs for the provider need to seek the title "baby-sitter" to watch their children. Fact of the matter is that people will seek the cheapest route and will make excuses to justify their reasons. It makes you wonder what are their priorities? Many, not all, have treated my business as that of a baby-sitter until it's tax time, then I am a business again. If you are a home provider and you are caring for more than 3 children then you are required to have a license. It is this very reason that I explain to the parent that they are reserving a spot on the license when they sign a contract. No matter if they bring their child or not, if they want to keep their spot. Payment must be received. My daycare is incorporated, fully licensed and insured. Not all providers will meet these requirements. Let's focus on my daycare as for I cannot speak for the others. My rate is $125 per week per child(all ages). The hours of operation are from 6am to 6pm or in simpler terms 60 hours. This does not include the time for preperation nor the time for clean up, grocery shopping, paperwork, emails, phone calls, etc...I actually awake at 5am preparing for opening and do not finish my day until 7PM the hour after close for cleaning purposes. This will increase my work hours to 70 hours a week plus the hour it takes to buy groceries of supplies ( which we do on Sunday's, a day that we are closed) bringing the total to 71 hours a week dedicated to my business. This equates to $1.76 per hour that I am making-from one childs daycare spot for the week. My wife has a teaching degree and runs a structed enviroment for the children in an actual daycare facility in our home. Our facility is better than a few of the local business daycares (this coming from the parents in our daycare, a reason why they left previous daycares in the first place due to cleanliness, and a structured loving environment). Our license is that of a business license except that we run our business from our home. The license is called a group home daycare license. It is this very reason that we follow the same guidelines of those daycares and close the same days that they are closed. Meaning that we expect paid vacation days off. Don't fall into the understanding that just because we work from home that we can be classified as baby-sitters, but instead understand that we care for your children as if they were our own. What is your child's good health and well being worth to you? Honestly one shouldn't be worried about paying one of the most important people in your life a little bit extra each year. If that doesnt do it for you then chalk it up this way; Each year the licensed childcare provider is required by law to complete 15 plus hours of classes to keep them up-to-date on all of the state requirements and changes in the guidelines for a licensed facility/ home. This also keeps the provider and all of it's employees (my wife and I) motivated and educated to do their JOB. So, take those 15 plus hours and apply that extra "provider vacation" money to that. We work hard for what we have as does ANY licensed childcare provider and we deserve the wages that we make.

Oh my goodness....I misread your first sentence and you almost got a disgruntled reply! So glad I kept reading. Last week I worked an average of 67 hours per year. My pay ended up being $5.77 per hour. My dream is to make minimum wage! We have time when kids are present which I call job #1. Then there's the paperwork, planning, groceries and cleaning which I call job #2. Today is a non paid holiday for me....and I have worked all day. I never have a true day off. when I have no job #1 for a day....I amp up the job #2 so I won't fall too far behind. If I take a fun day with my husband......daycare is always on my mind and a huge part of our conversations. We also experience damage to our homes.......my carpet is falling apart and I can't afford to replace it. My walls have damage because of improperly hanging stuff that is required and also because face it.....kids cause damage. Not charging when kids don't come????? Well, my bills are still due. The perfect solution? You can choose to have contracted days or you can take your chance every time you bring your child that I am not already full for that day.....and you will also pay an extra $5 per day. You choose! Why would I not take vacations and Holidays? I need time to relax and to keep motivated to do my job. Do you really want a provider that never has days off or a vacation. We can't afford to take these without pay.....$5.77 and hour pay enough to afford even a stay at home vacation! We are professionals. I have a degree in ECE, I'm a 3/3 star program, I cook very nutritios meals, and I teach, provide awesome and educational materials.....and buy more and more every month......I want clients that look at this program first for quality....and second for "how much".

Sorry.....I feel better.....I agree with your entire post!
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  #98  
Old 02-21-2012, 08:33 PM
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Msiferllc Msiferllc is offline
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Default Daycare PTO

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Home daycare providers are self employed. Self employed people usually don't get paid vacation. My provider asks for paid vacation and I do not agree with it. When we go on vacation, I will still pay for the week that my child is not there. That I agree with. I also do not have a problem paying for holidays should it fall on a weekday, but paid vacations? So basically, I have to pay for her for not watching my child and pay for someone else to watch him. Doesn't make sense. This is why I am changing providers. Good luck.
Agreed. You lose certain privileges when you become self-employed, PTO being one of them. However, if the provider keeps getting new clients, what motivation does she have to change? I think it's steep, and the best message you could send is to find another provider.
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  #99  
Old 02-22-2012, 05:32 AM
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Cat Herder Cat Herder is offline
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Originally Posted by Msiferllc View Post
Agreed. You lose certain privileges when you become self-employed, PTO being one of them. However, if the provider keeps getting new clients, what motivation does she have to change? I think it's steep, and the best message you could send is to find another provider.
And you are marketing products to daycare providers here?

It cuts both ways.
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  #100  
Old 02-22-2012, 12:20 PM
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MyAngels MyAngels is offline
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Originally Posted by Catherder View Post
And you are marketing products to daycare providers here?

It cuts both ways.
Selling baby monitors, right?

While everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, I'm not sure making an anti-provider post would be my first choice in a marketing strategy .
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