He Or She? Question For My Christian Friends

[Michelle]

If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I am not comfortable at all doing it and the mother is kinda back and forth about it.

Please don't flame me about what is pc.... I really am looking for a Christian perspective.

[Country Kids]

I would say she as she was born a girl, is a girl, has the body parts of a girl. She is a girl no matter how you dice it.

I wouldn't even start the other as it will just confuse the children you watch and make them possibly wonder why she wants to be he. You may also have other parents upset if their girls want to start being called he's. The boys also will be confused as they know they are boys and will want to know why a girl is a boy.

To young to start all this!

[kathiemarie]

Could you just call her/him by name? This is a hard one.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by kathiemarie

Could you just call her/him by name? This is a hard one.

yes, but from what I understand...(I haven't started care yet)the child gets really upset if someone slips and says "she"
I am not going to walk on egg shells for a 4 year old or for anyone and I agree, she was born a she has the girl parts and God did not make any mistakes.

[countrymom]

who's teaching this child and buying this child clothes. Once you find the root of the problem then you can go from there. I would ask her why she thinks she is a boy. Also, I would call her by her name. I'm wondering if she thinks that if she does boy things then she is a boy. Maybe like a tomboy.

[countrymom]

last year there was a girl on the soccer team that I coached and she was 4. Well her mom told me that they call her "bunny" even thou she does have a name. I flatly refused to call this girl "bunny" I'm sorry, but thats a private nickname, not a name that I want to be shouting out on the soccer field. The worst part was that she didn't even know her name, I didn't care, she had a name and I used it.

[daycare]

I am not coming from a religious standpoint on this, but I would not entertain this at all. If the child gets upset because something is not being done their way, well then too bad. When this child moves on in life, they will not get to decide if their teacher will call them he or she and I don't think it's right that a parent should ask you to entertain it either.


If the child throws a fit about it, let them. While I want to validate each and every persons feelings, I would not start off a relationship with a four year old child telling me you will do this or that because I will get upset at you if you don't.

Gosh, I sound harsh...lol

or you can go with the new uni-sex term ZEE...its not he or she..

[youretooloud]

I would respect the child's choices at this age. BUT, I would tell her that I will not try to remember to say "he". I will say "she", and she will just have to learn to ignore it.

I wouldn't mind at all if she wore boy's clothes. I wouldn't mind at all that she wishes she were a boy, or identifies with boys more than girls.

(I had a child who looked like a boy, but was actually a girl, so I don't assume anything anymore...she just looked like a boy who was not "gifted" if you know what I mean, but when they wanted to find her undescended testicles, it turned out she had ovaries, not testicles)

I respect gender issues, and try to be as sensitive as possible. But, I will not call girl a boy, or a boy a girl. It's too hard to remember, and it's too hard for the other kids to remember. I WOULD try to use the child's name as often as possible though.

[Kaddidle Care]

Originally Posted by Michelle

If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I am not comfortable at all doing it and the mother is kinda back and forth about it.
Please don't flame me about what is pc.... I really am looking for a Christian perspective.

Let the mother deal with it.

[EchoMom]

Originally Posted by Michelle

yes, but from what I understand...(I haven't started care yet)the child gets really upset if someone slips and says "she"
I am not going to walk on egg shells for a 4 year old or for anyone and I agree, she was born a she has the girl parts and God did not make any mistakes.

I agree God does not make any mistakes, but because of our fallen state there are mistakes all over. Our bodies are broken and damaged and are not what God intended and not how they will remain in heaven. God is grieved as well by our fallen state and this is why He's made his plan to redeem and make everything right again under His leadership once again.

So, as a Christian, I am not totally sure that I can say that being transgendered isn't a real thing. It truly can be a problem of the brain and not the body parts and I believe that is possible. I don't know what God has to say about transgender. I am conservative though and don't believe that we are supposed to act on homosexuality, (agreed, please don't blast me about this being PC or not). We can be depressed, bi-polar, OCD, etc etc. I don't think God is the one who made us that way, our brains are messed up so isn't it possible that yes, in our development the gender/brain assignment didn't turn out right?

However, when it comes to this kid, I agree it is WAY too young to be encouraging the child in that direction. I think it's totally unfair when a more feminine boy gets pegged as "gay" when really maybe he's just more sensitive. Or liking fashion doesnt' have to equate to sexual desire toward the same sex, but that's pretty much how our culture links it and puts people in a box.

The point is, this child COULD feel like they are a boy in a girls body, but it's too soon to know and definitely shouldn't be encouraged. It could just be a phase. Also, no 4 year old, no matter what their demand, should get to call the shots. Your house, you're the adult, and they have to be respectful. I woiuld not call one of my kids a gorilla either if they insisted, and I sure wouldn't call them Honey Boo Boo! :P

[youretooloud]

Originally Posted by glenechogirl

I agree God does not make any mistakes, but because of our fallen state there are mistakes all over. Our bodies are broken and damaged and are not what God intended and not how they will remain in heaven. God is grieved as well by our fallen state and this is why He's made his plan to redeem and make everything right again under His leadership once again.

So, as a Christian, I am not totally sure that I can say that being transgendered isn't a real thing. It truly can be a problem of the brain and not the body parts and I believe that is possible. I don't know what God has to say about transgender. I am conservative though and don't believe that we are supposed to act on homosexuality, (agreed, please don't blast me about this being PC or not). We can be depressed, bi-polar, OCD, etc etc. I don't think God is the one who made us that way, our brains are messed up so isn't it possible that yes, in our development the gender/brain assignment didn't turn out right?

However, when it comes to this kid, I agree it is WAY too young to be encouraging the child in that direction. I think it's totally unfair when a more feminine boy gets pegged as "gay" when really maybe he's just more sensitive. Or liking fashion doesnt' have to equate to sexual desire toward the same sex, but that's pretty much how our culture links it and puts people in a box.

The point is, this child COULD feel like they are a boy in a girls body, but it's too soon to know and definitely shouldn't be encouraged. It could just be a phase. Also, no 4 year old, no matter what their demand, should get to call the shots. Your house, you're the adult, and they have to be respectful. I woiuld not call one of my kids a gorilla either if they insisted, and I sure wouldn't call them Honey Boo Boo! :P

Very beautifully said. Thank you for such a lovely and thoughtful post.

[youretooloud]

And.. true story about me.

I thought I was a boy for YEARS. I still remember being positive I was a boy.

I think it was because I was a very skinny kid with a big round snoopy belly and a HUGE outie belly button. So, I thought I was a boy. The outie belly button was the only thing I could see.

I wore my brother's old clothes. I played with my brother's toys, and I LOVED PF flyers boy's shoes.

But, I also adored dolls and stuffed toys and my pretend broom and dust pan. I didn't really have any actual boy tendencies, just an older brother, parents with no money to buy me new clothes, and no girl neighbors.

[sharlan]

I would allow her clothing to be between her and her mom. As for referring to her as a "she", I would just call her by name and not make an issue of it.
It's up to her and her family to decide her sexuality and really isn't anyone else's business. There is no way that I would even discuss it with the child.


My best friend through grade school and high school was "different". She only wore boys clothes. It was really hard in grade school when we were only allowed to wear dresses, no pants or shorts. She always wore pants under her dresses. This was from 1st grade on.

Her name was Rona, but went by Ronnie when she was old enough to have a say.

She was always "different" than all the other girls. She never developed like the rest of us. By jr hi, people meeting her didn't know she was a girl. In hi school, the teachers allowed her to dress seperately from the rest of the pe class. (Remember dressing and showering in pe.)

By the end of hi school, she was openly gay. The last I heard from her was about 30 years ago, she had had a sex change, was now legally male, and was happily married.

I never felt that it was my right to judge her choices in life.

[Hunni Bee]

From my personal, Christian viewpoint, I wouldn't participate in this.

Clothes are clothes, I wear men's clothing sometimes and I wore boys clothes very often as a child, because I was my moms first girl and she didn't know how to dress me . So I wouldn't care about that.

But, the whole referring to her as he or him wouldn't fly with me. God made.her a girl and she's a girl. At four, you dont start changing your gender, I'm sorry. She still has her whole life to decide that. I know the mom doesn't want her to be upset, but as with other issues we discuss on here, its called parenting.

Now as a provider, and of course this s NOT something you would want to decline a family over, I probably could make this work....Id just think of the child as a boy from day one. Of course you'd be always either consoling this child because one of the dcks called her a girl or trying to make sure they never found out she's a girl.

Boy, that's a doozy.

[Blackcat31]

I don't think this is an issue of a child getting his or her way or being controlling. I think there are many cases of people who were born female but always felt in their heart of hearts that they were male and vice versa.

However with that being said, I would talk with the parents and decide from THEIR standpoint what you should do. If they want their female born child raised as a male, then you have to respect that (if you do enroll this child).

If they are adamantly against the child being referred to as a male then THEY need to discuss this with their child and explain that Miss Michelle is going to call her a she/her when talking to and about her.

This is their issue/choice and shouldn't be left to you to decide or to figure out.

[sharlan]

Originally Posted by countrymom

last year there was a girl on the soccer team that I coached and she was 4. Well her mom told me that they call her "bunny" even thou she does have a name. I flatly refused to call this girl "bunny" I'm sorry, but thats a private nickname, not a name that I want to be shouting out on the soccer field. The worst part was that she didn't even know her name, I didn't care, she had a name and I used it.

What right did you have to do that? The parents have the right to decide what their child is called, not other people. I'm not sure why you would find "Bunny" an offensive nick name.

Here, when the girls play softball, the coaches are not allowed to call them by their names on the field. The girls choose a nick name and that is what is on the team banner.

[Countrygal]

How long has this been going on? My kids all went through a "stage" where they wanted to be the opposite of what they were. I just kept telling them that God made them perfect just the way they are. I'd explain that sometimes it's fun to "pretend", but that they needed to know that God doesn't make any mistakes and that they are lovely , in this case, girls. I would also maybe, if you have time, try to do some "girly" things with her. Most kids this age love to paint their fingernails, or have their hair done up, or help cook(of course, my boys love cooking, too!), but just some one-on-one time being a girl.

I guess I would lean toward that somehow she wants to be someone else, probably because she feels who she is is inferior. Just a long shot, but that would be my guess.

It could just be a 4yo phase of learning more about her body and sex.

Bottom line, I'd do like I said above - but I'm surely no expert.

[familyschoolcare]

I would not call the child a he or a boy at all.

I think that children have a hard enougph time figuring out there gender role in life.

[SilverSabre25]

Religion aside, ask the parents how they want to handle it. Either they are on board with raising their child with the gender identity the child chooses, or they are not. They need to make a choice, and they need to stick with it, and yo need to follow that choice.

[MissAnn]

I might be flamed for this one.....and I am a Christian.

I have a nephew who is now 19 years old. When he was born had both male and female parts. A decision had to be made....they went with male. He has taken hormones since puberty so that he will appear to be male. He is not fertile.

In utero hormones change the sex parts into male or female. I may not be saying this totally correct....it's been a long time. You get either ovaries or testicles.....a clitoris or a penis. Apparently something went awry. He has a micro penis they could not find in the beginning (bigger now with hormones). He also had what appeared to be ovaries.

Also...I know some people are born in the "wrong" bodies. Their body may be anatomically male but they know they are female. People who are this way have known from a very young age that they are in the "wrong" body. Many commit suicide or go through deep depressions.

I would go along with what the parents say but also encourage counseling. I would not be judgmental.

Good luck....confusing and difficult position to be in.

[familyschoolcare]

I would not call the child a he or a boy at all.

I think that children have a hard enougph time figuring out there gender role in life.

[Live and Learn]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

I might be flamed for this one.....and I am a Christian.

I have a nephew who is now 19 years old. When he was born had both male and female parts. A decision had to be made....they went with male. He has taken hormones since puberty so that he will appear to be male. He is not fertile.

In utero hormones change the sex parts into male or female. I may not be saying this totally correct....it's been a long time. You get either ovaries or testicles.....a clitoris or a penis. Apparently something went awry. He has a micro penis they could not find in the beginning (bigger now with hormones). He also had what appeared to be ovaries.

Also...I know some people are born in the "wrong" bodies. Their body may be anatomically male but they know they are female. People who are this way have known from a very young age that they are in the "wrong" body. Many commit suicide or go through deep depressions.

I would go along with what the parents say but also encourage counseling. I would not be judgmental.

Good luck....confusing and difficult position to be in.

Thank you for your thoughtful post and for sharing your own personal experiences. I doubt many of us on the boards have been touched by this issue as closely as you have.

I would just like to add that some parents are just plain wack-a-doodles and I would not refer to her as a him without a doctor's note.

[Willow]

Matthew 7:1
“Judge not, that you be not judged.

John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”

Romans 14:1-4
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Romans 2:11
For God shows no partiality.

Luke 6:42
How can you say to your brother, ‘Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye.






This if for no one but God Himself to judge.


If you cannot be accepting and compassionate towards this child, offering her what she needs to feel right and happy with herself, then I would not contract for care with the family.


This is hardly some form of evil. Likely just a phase. If it's not I would refuse to have any hand in making things worse by trying to force another human being to be something they don't feel they are.

[Willow]

Originally Posted by glenechogirl

We can be depressed, bi-polar, OCD, etc etc. I don't think God is the one who made us that way, our brains are messed up so isn't it possible that yes, in our development the gender/brain assignment didn't turn out right?

Somehow we've become a society that takes pity on mothers suffering from postpartum depression who have delusions of killing their children, and we set up government/tax payer funded group homes in support of schizophrenic men who become paranoid the world is out to get them, but we think a child confused about their gender is the devil incarnate who's notions need to be excused as ridiculous and then repressed to the gills.


As if a child should know better than a grown man or woman and deserves no support or respect for how they experience things in their own heads.....

[makap]

Originally Posted by Michelle

If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I am not comfortable at all doing it and the mother is kinda back and forth about it.

Please don't flame me about what is pc.... I really am looking for a Christian perspective.

I may get flamed for this.... but oh well!

If God gave you a penis, you are a BOY. If God gave you a vagina you are a girl! PERIOD!!! & I will raise you as such. (as determined by my God)

Society has gotten so messed up!

This is my Christian opinion!

[daycare]

Originally Posted by Achelea

I may get flamed for this.... but oh well!

If God gave you a penis, you are a BOY. If God gave you a vagina you are a girl! PERIOD!!! & I will raise you as such. (as determined by my God)

Society has gotten so messed up!

This is my Christian opinion!

I agree with this 100% god made you who you are...I don't care if you are gay or straight, but if he made you male, be that....

Back to what I have read and others are saying, I would make this a non-issue at daycare and would let the parents deal with it.

[MissAnn]

Originally Posted by Achelea

I may get flamed for this.... but oh well!

If God gave you a penis, you are a BOY. If God gave you a vagina you are a girl! PERIOD & I will raise you as such.

Society has gotten so messed up!

This is my Christian opinion!

And if God gave you both male and female parts....then what are you? I'm sorry but sometimes it's not black and white.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

And if God gave you both male and female parts....then what are you? I'm sorry but sometimes it's not black and white.

then you are what you decide to be....and honestly how often does that occur??????


Of course there is an exception to every rule right? But in the end a decision is made by the childs parent while growing up and then when the child becomes and adult will decide for themselves what they want to be.....

[MissAnn]

Originally Posted by daycare

then you are what you decide to be....and honestly how often does that occur??????


Of course there is an exception to every rule right? But in the end a decision is made by the childs parent while growing up and then when the child becomes and adult will decide for themselves what they want to be.....

I believe you just contradicted yourself. See....it really is a confusing issue and not black and white.

[makap]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

And if God gave you both male and female parts....then what are you? I'm sorry but sometimes it's not black and white.

The child that the OP was asking about was NOT born with both "parts". and this is is what I was replying to. Yes it is not always black and white but the question that the OP has is................... If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I would not! If she has a vagina she is a girl.............SORRY! GOD MADE YOU A GIRL!

You may dress as a boy, you may play with trucks, you may play with GI Joes and Power Rangers, I will buy you power tools as you get older, I will allow you to work on the truck with daddy etc, etc, etc......BUT God made you a girl & you are a GIRL and I will raise you as a girl because you have a vagina.

If I had my own child who was born with both male and female parts then depending on the extent of what they were given, I may have a different opinion.

Right now my opinion is this!!! Based on what our dear Lord gave you when you were born is how I am going to determine how I dress you.

Some parents these days are just really messed up and THEY are the ones who push/decide who/what their children are or how they should behave.

God help us all because this world is totally messed up![/b]

[MissAnn]

Originally Posted by Michelle

If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I am not comfortable at all doing it and the mother is kinda back and forth about it.

Please don't flame me about what is pc.... I really am looking for a Christian perspective.

I can't imagine. I know this must be so hard on the parents. Of course the mom is back and forth....I would be too. I would be in much prayer for direction, that is for sure. I guess I would be as gender neutral as possible. I would develope a new language that doesn't use he or she. I would mess up a million times too. You and the mom can learn together how to deal with this situation. Maybe this is a phase....or maybe it's not. I would really encourage counseling and I would be very non judgemental (as it sounds like you already are).

It doesn't matter what our opinions are....what matters is the child. Please keep us informed....we can all learn from this.

[daycare]

my sister is one of these parents...She lives in Eugene Or, which is a much different place than I live. From what I grab from it, it is a very free loving place that loves and accepts all without judgement. Wish I could say that was how the whole world was, but its not. I live in CA, hollyweird, the land of the fruits and nuts...lol Some of the most judgmental people I have ever met.

Her son has long breads, loves to paint his nails, loves frilly things and so on. My sister says that he gets to make all of his own decisions and letting him do so makes him a strong leader. Which I do agree with, but not completely


But when my sister came here to CA, every where we went people stopped and gave funny looks. It didn't bother me, but I felt bad for my nephew.

My sister also home schools him, because kids make fun of him. Basically, all f the kids tease and make fun of him

Yes I agree that he should be comfortable with who he is, but as parents we are supposed to give guidance to our children, because their minds are not mature enough to make good decisions yet.

[MissAnn]

Originally Posted by Achelea

The child that the OP was asking about was NOT born with both "parts". and this is is what I was replying to. Yes it is not always black and white but the question that the OP has is................... If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I would not! If she has a vagina she is a girl.............SORRY! GOD MADE YOU A GIRL!

You may dress as a boy, you may play with trucks, you may play with GI Joes and Power Rangers, I will buy you power tools as you get older, I will allow you to work on the truck with daddy etc, etc, etc......BUT God made you a girl & you are a GIRL and I will raise you as a girl because you have a vagina.

If I had my own child who was born with both male and female parts then depending on the extent of what they were given, I may have a different opinion.

Right now my opinion is this!!! Based on what our dear Lord gave you when you were born is how I am going to determine how I dress you.

Some parents these days are just really messed up and THEY are the ones who push/decide who/what their children are or how they should behave.

God help us all because this world is totally messed up![/b]

Sorry Daycare......I do believe I got you and Achelia mixed up on the quoting. Disregard my previous message about contradicting yourself. I should pay better attention!!!!!

[daycare]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

Sorry Daycare......I do believe I got you and Achelia mixed up on the quoting. Disregard my previous message about contradicting yourself. I should pay better attention!!!!!

lol its all good...... its just a friendly debate where in the end we all can agree to disagree.........

[MsMe]

Theee are cases of adults who are transgender knowing they felt they were the opposite sex from ages as young as four. If the parents are ok with it (even part way) I would gladly except her into my progam. Chances are high it is just a phase and if so than mo harm done. If it isnt and she continues on with a transgender life the effects of people trying to force her to be a girl during her childhood could be very damaging.

[youretooloud]

Originally Posted by MsMe

trying to force her to be a girl during her childhood could be very damaging.

I agree with that, but, I don't think teachers should all have to call her "he", "him", "his", because I don't think that's forcing a gender on her.

I would be very upset if anyone told my child "That's for girls" or "That's for boys" or "You are a girl, you can't have this".

A girl goes into a girls bathroom, or locker room until she has made an actual change in her body as an adult. A boy goes into a boy's bathroom.

Lands End used to sell gender neutral clothes when my kids were little. My youngest would only wear those to school. She looked incredibly adorable in that. But, in the summer, she wore a girl's bathing suit. I draw the line in some places. She's an adult now, no gender issues, likes only boys, but prefers modest clothing. Not the same things I would wear, not the things her sister wears, but on her it looks great.

[Heidi]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

I can't imagine. I know this must be so hard on the parents. Of course the mom is back and forth....I would be too. I would be in much prayer for direction, that is for sure. I guess I would be as gender neutral as possible. I would develope a new language that doesn't use he or she. I would mess up a million times too. You and the mom can learn together how to deal with this situation. Maybe this is a phase....or maybe it's not. I would really encourage counseling and I would be very non judgemental (as it sounds like you already are).

It doesn't matter what our opinions are....what matters is the child. Please keep us informed....we can all learn from this.

[dapb45]

Originally Posted by Michelle

If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I am not comfortable at all doing it and the mother is kinda back and forth about it.

Please don't flame me about what is pc.... I really am looking for a Christian perspective.

I have mixed emotions on this issue. A few years ago, I also had a four yr old boy in my care whom the parents insisted on calling by a girl's name. They would say his first name but placed the girls name with it. I felt the parent's had the problem, not the child. It concerned me that the parents, more or less, brainwashed the child which I considered to be unhealthy. While I do have my own religious preferences, that was not my main concern at this time. It was the child! The little boy's ability to be a boy was hindered due to his parents treating him like a girl from birth. If I had it to do over, I would have had a conference with the parents and possibly professional counseling. Hindsight is 20/20, but I still think about that child! His path was chosen for him. I don't feel he had the chance to be a "boy". They wanted a girl, I assume, so they made one! Sad....

[laundrymom]

I'd call her by her name, or sweets, kiddo, little monkey, any other name I call my daykids. Good luck, I think the honest answer is, there is no one answer. Each day , each moment, is a decision you must make. Do it with your heart and you'll be fine, so will little sweetie.

[ritah]

My 2 cents...

My primary concern would be for the other children in my care. If this was the only child I took care of, I would be fine with calling them whatever the parents decided was appropriate. If not, I would have to say no. It would be extremely confusing for the other children and open the door for questions and conversations that are best handled by each child's parents based on their own belief systems and parenting choices.

[daycare]

Originally Posted by ritah

My 2 cents...

My primary concern would be for the other children in my care. If this was the only child I took care of, I would be fine with calling them whatever the parents decided was appropriate. If not, I would have to say no. It would be extremely confusing for the other children and open the door for questions and conversations that are best handled by each child's parents based on their own belief systems and parenting choices.

very good point and very true...... I know that I could not cater to this if it had to be an issue at daycare.

[JenNJ]

I haven't read the other responses, but here is my take.

1) You need to have a sit down with the parents. They need to go to family therapy and the child needs to go alone to someone who specializes in this sort of situation. You need to tell them this. Let a professional guide the parents and you to the best situation for the child.

2) After they have done that, sit down again and go over what the professional feels is best for the child. Decide if you can handle this situation or not. If not, cut ties with the family so they can get their child into a place where she will be accepted for who she is on the inside and out.

3) Your religion plays no part in what to do here. You can do as the parents decide or not care for her. You are not her parent and do not get to make that choice.

Good luck with your decision.

Originally Posted by JenNJ

I haven't read the other responses, but here is my take.

1) You need to have a sit down with the parents. They need to go to family therapy and the child needs to go alone to someone who specializes in this sort of situation. You need to tell them this. Let a professional guide the parents and you to the best situation for the child.

2) After they have done that, sit down again and go over what the professional feels is best for the child. Decide if you can handle this situation or not. If not, cut ties with the family so they can get their child into a place where she will be accepted for who she is on the inside and out.

3) Your religion plays no part in what to do here. You can do as the parents decide or not care for her. You are not her parent and do not get to make that choice.

Good luck with your decision.

Exactly.

You need to talk to the parents about what they think is right for their child. If you are not comfortable with their parenting then terminate but this isn't your choice and your opinion doesn't matter.

[spud912]

My dck's are so mixed up anyway. I call everyone someone else's name (even boy and girl names get mixed up). Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind .

OP - I would refer to her whichever way I felt was most appropriate and let the parents decide what to call her. If she threw a fit about what someone called her while in daycare (as long as it was appropriate and not demeaning), then I would react the same way I always do when a child overreacts or throws a fit. I would tell her "Stop being silly and settle down. There is nothing wrong with what little Johnny called you." Then I would ignore any further whining/temper tantrums.

[magsgma]

This is in reply to the OP and the question as whether I would call a girl a HE. I would not contribute to gender confusion. And I would not conform to the world's new age verbage and a made up word... I Am a Christian however this is biology plain and simple... I would NOT refer to her as he and would not encourage anyone else to either If I were to enroll the child I would not worry about what clothes the child wore, Unless I already had a dress code in place. If a child wanted to wear a Princess dress or a Batman costume - as long as they can use the bathroom without too much help. I do not allow overalls for this reason (unless they can fasten by themselves) and I ask that infants do not wear sleepers with too many snaps or buttons. This is a request that I make, it is in my policies That is my opinion on the clothing... . As for her choices of what she wore or chose to play this is where I would respect her choices but for her request for me (basically) to lie and refer to her as he when she was born a female, that is where I would made the adult decision to state the facts... She does not get the choice to be called what she isn't. I would not call a child a dog when they are born a human. This is no different. She IS what she IS a female.

So many of the replies are focused on making the 4 yo comply to adult standards. Why not respect the child and call the child 'him' at the child's insistence? If a child purposefully called me the wrong pronoun I would get down to the child's level and explain respect and demand respect starting with being called the correct name and pronoun. I don't see why adults feel any need whatsoever to disrespect a child who clearly knows what he/she wants to be called. Also the bigger the deal is made at this point the more the child is likely to rebel. Don't make a big deal out of it, respect the child, and the situation will resolve in due time. This goes for a lot of things children do. They are exploring their world and so long as they aren't hurting others and are being respectful live and let live.

[countrymom]

I think this boils down to, "why are the parents going back and forth about this" I'm just having a hard time understanding why the parents can't make up their mind.

[Willow]

I think it's ridiculous how some of you are self diagnosing a 4 year old as potentially transgendered.

I have a kid in my care right now who recently got a dog. He now claims he's a dog. He will respond to his name and act normally when I ask him to, like at mealtimes, but he is absolutely tickled when I engage in his imaginative play and call him puppy. The rest of the kids think it's a hilarious game and when I pat his head or throw imaginary ball for him I've recently also now started engaging a giraffe, princess and a power ranger.

I've never heard anything about imaginative role playing like that being any kind of damaging, nor is it any kind of indicator the kids in my care are going to grow up and demand to be dogs, giraffes, princesses or power rangers.

Some of you need to chill out and stop hollaring out the names of genitals in protest. If this is merely a phase freaking out about it will screw her up way before indulgence ever could.

[JenNJ]

Originally Posted by Willow

I think it's ridiculous how some of you are self diagnosing a 4 year old as potentially transgendered.

Well, this is the age where a transgendered person typically begins to identify with the opposite gender. I don't think anyone is diagnosing, but I think it fair to say that it is a 50/50 shot whether it is a phase or a true identity issue.

[countrymom]

Originally Posted by Willow

I think it's ridiculous how some of you are self diagnosing a 4 year old as potentially transgendered.

I have a kid in my care right now who recently got a dog. He now claims he's a dog. He will respond to his name and act normally when I ask him to, like at mealtimes, but he is absolutely tickled when I engage in his imaginative play and call him puppy. The rest of the kids think it's a hilarious game and when I pat his head or throw imaginary ball for him I've recently also now started engaging a giraffe, princess and a power ranger.

I've never heard anything about imaginative role playing like that being any kind of damaging, nor is it any kind of indicator the kids in my care are going to grow up and demand to be dogs, giraffes, princesses or power rangers.

Some of you need to chill out and stop hollaring out the names of genitals in protest. If this is merely a phase freaking out about it will screw her up way before indulgence ever could.

but there is a difference between imaginative play and identifying yourself as someone of the oppisite sex. My ds was a hamster for a long, but thats imaginative play, he still knew he was a boy. But this child is not playing a game. Oh I hate power rangers, I have one here too.

[JenNJ]

Originally Posted by countrymom

but there is a difference between imaginative play and identifying yourself as someone of the oppisite sex. My ds was a hamster for a long, but thats imaginative play, he still knew he was a boy. But this child is not playing a game. Oh I hate power rangers, I have one here too.

Anyone versed in child development can see that this is more than imaginative play. Kids pretend and experiment, but when it gets to this level a professional is needed to get everyone on the same page for the child's sake.

[jen2651]

I am Christian and republican (oh lord this is a revealing post) but I would ask the parents opinion - I believe it seems as though the mother is asking the child to be called him. But to be completely honest, I think it would be easy to avoid this by using the child's name as opposed to a pronoun. It is not like this is Spanish where the word needs to have a male/female connotation (friend in Spanish, girl = amiga, boy=amigo, in true Spanish language).

This is rather unrelated but I had a 3 almost 4 year old boy that I ended up terming for behavioral issues but mostly because his mother and I couldn't mesh on how to deal with some of the issues. She was/is an angry bitter woman (rather young, 23) BUT her angry demeanor all stemmed from the fact her dad decided he wanted a different lifestyle when she was 16. He is a very kind hearted, upstanding, professional man. She has completely cut him out of her life...when dad would pick up the Fridays of his weekend, then the boy would see his grandpa - they parents weren't together - how sad is that that the boy couldn't see his mothers father with her?! But, to draw this together, she told me under absolutely no circumstances was he to do any girl things at my house...she didn't want her son to turn out to be a **gg** (very obscene word for a gay man which I instantly told her wasn't allowed to be used in my house). So, he (I didn't follow her rules) wasn't allowed to dress up at all, not even in 'cowboy' clothes because this may lead to cross dressing (apparently dressing up was bad), couldn't play house, couldn't play with babies, couldn't paint with pink, she wanted me to have different sets of crayons, markers, and paint for him with no 'girl' colors, couldn't play in the playhouse outside, couldn't 'help with the babies' etc. Obviously this didn't come out immediately or I would have said I could in no way control all of that...

My point is, she was determining/mandating he personality to be only 'tough boy'. Towards the end I told her he was going to grow up to be a big strong highschooler that is mean...the one who mocks boys and calls the gay for wearing different clothes that him, the one who wouldn't respect anything a girl says. She was making life so confusing for him.

I know this really doesn't relate but in my circumstance I learned that you need to take the cues from the child. NOT let them rule the roost, but allow their opinion to matter! This child is 4...she may or may not know what she wants to be when she grows up, she may want to be a farmer, or lord knows, like my son, a tree?! But I really do think if the parents are in a way following her lead, then so should you. If you feel as though you can't, that is completely respectable, but please tell them upfront so they may decide if you are still the daycare for them.

Sorry so long and slightly off topic!

[Michelle]

thank you, you all have given me a lot to think about.
I agree that a 4 year old is way too young to make people call them something they are not. I usually call them their name or sweetheart,or sweetie. I will meet the family on Friday and I will fill you in on what happens. I just had a quick conversation on the phone with mom and she told me about her. I really don't mind a girl being a tom boy at all. It's the being called "he" issue. I think it will be way too confusing to the other kids and I just can't do it.
I think this is a single mom with no dad involved.

[momofsix]

I just skimmed the replies and I'm a little bit shocked by some of the responses!
I am a Christian, born and raised in a conservative Christian family and went to a Christian school through high school. I'm a pastor's wife (just my background)
When my oldest dd was 4 she changed her name to Jory and was a boy. It was all pretend! I didn't make a big deal out of it at all-actually I don't ever remember having any type of "discussion" about it at all. She knew she was really a girl and that it was all pretend. It lasted about 2 weeks and that was the end of it.
I think maybe everyone's (starting with the parents) blowing this way too far our of proportion and worrying about something that's not even an issue, and probably creating an issue for the child when there wasn't one to start with.
The op hasn't even started care yet and from what I've read there doesn't seem to be any biological issues. Let the child pretend.
My opinion might be different if the OP gave more information on the child and what the parents have done so far.

[Hunni Bee]

Originally Posted by Achelea

The child that the OP was asking about was NOT born with both "parts". and this is is what I was replying to. Yes it is not always black and white but the question that the OP has is................... If a 4 year old girl wears only boys clothes and insist's on being called "he" would you do it?

I would not! If she has a vagina she is a girl.............SORRY! GOD MADE YOU A GIRL!

You may dress as a boy, you may play with trucks, you may play with GI Joes and Power Rangers, I will buy you power tools as you get older, I will allow you to work on the truck with daddy etc, etc, etc......BUT God made you a girl & you are a GIRL and I will raise you as a girl because you have a vagina.

If I had my own child who was born with both male and female parts then depending on the extent of what they were given, I may have a different opinion.

Right now my opinion is this!!! Based on what our dear Lord gave you when you were born is how I am going to determine how I dress you.

Some parents these days are just really messed up and THEY are the ones who push/decide who/what their children are or how they should behave.

God help us all because this world is totally messed up![/b]

I agree with this 1000%. This is exactly how I feel.

This is not 1935 - your clothing and activities do not define your gender. If she wants to wear boy clothes, fine. She wants to play "boy" games and toys so be it, but to me toys are toys anyway. Those are appropriate choices for a four year old.

An inappropriate choice for a four year old is to decide their gender. If when SHE gets to a certain age where she has enough information to make those decisions on her own, she still feels this way, then she should do that. Whether it's wrong or right in Gods eyes, she'll have to accept that. At four she cannot accept it, does not understand it, and shouldn't be in the position to.

By going along with this, her parents are making this choice for her and that's inappropriate in my opinion as well. She should make this choice for herself, but not at four.

[Willow]

Originally Posted by countrymom

but there is a difference between imaginative play and identifying yourself as someone of the oppisite sex.

I disagree.

I think that's the definition of imaginative play. Pretending to be something you're not. Whether it's an animal, a super hero, a king when you're a girl, a mommy when you're a boy or an inanimate object entirely.


Kids don't have the ability to reason that what's between their legs should dictate what they pretend they are in play.

I fail to see how a girl pretending to be a boy is any more repulsive, morally bankrupt, ethically challenging or harmful than a girl pretending to be a giraffe.

[KEG123]

I'd avoid any gender identification at all. No he/she at all. Name only. It may be hard, but it would be best.

[Willow]

Originally Posted by JenNJ

Anyone versed in child development can see that this is more than imaginative play. Kids pretend and experiment, but when it gets to this level a professional is needed to get everyone on the same page for the child's sake.

Thanks for the implication that because someone disagrees with you that automatically means they're an idiot that knows nothing about child development!


Anyone can see this is more than imaginative play? I'm sorry but have you met this child? The OP hasn't even done that but you feel qualified and confident enough having this very tiny bit of second hand information to peg this very young child as struggling with a gender identity crisis who needs professional intervention as opposed to a child merely attention seeking or having an active imagination?


I know I wouldn't. I couldn't dream of making such an assertion over the internet having no first hand knowledge of the situation, the child or the family myself nor having met any of them before.

[Willow]

jen2651 and momofsix -

I couldn't agree with the both of you more!

[Heidi]

My sister wanted to be a boy until at least the age of 12. Hated dresses, walked around shirtless until puberty (we are European, so my parents didn't care...lol). She's now married with 4 children

Then, slowly as puberty hit...and boys came into play, things changed. She named her first child Tiffany, of all things (I would have expected Bobbi or Toni from her).

We went to Goodwill on Sunday and she is SO happy about the sundress she "scored" for $6.99.

I guess I'm in the camp that you should try to use her name as much as possible. Typically, you are not going to be using gender pronouns to talk TO her, so it's only when you are talking ABOUT her that's it's an issue.

Maybe she's transgender, maybe not. I was pretty sure I was princess until I was 5 or 6. When I was 15, I dreamed of meeting Graham Russell of the band Air Supply on the beach in Australia, where he would fall hopelessly in love with me.

As for the parent's being confused...duh! Their 4year old is telling them she wants to be a boy, and they don't WANT her to be different; to be ridiculed and ostricized. They WANT her to be "normal" (our family motto is there is no normal). But, they are afraid that they may damage her forever if they deny her the this identity. Heck ya, I'd be confused!

I am extremely excepting of Gay and Lesbian people. Yet, when MY 15 yo daughter claims that she's "BI", I'm still nervous and worried. I know it will make her life harder. So I guess it's all fine and good until it's MY child?

Even now, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach, because she's also in no hurry to get into ANY relationship, fortunately. Right now, she claims to have a GF, but said GF lives 2000 miles away, and they can only talk via electronic means.

So...meanwhile, I try to keep my feelings out of it and support her, keeping the lines of communication open.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by momofsix

I just skimmed the replies and I'm a little bit shocked by some of the responses!
I am a Christian, born and raised in a conservative Christian family and went to a Christian school through high school. I'm a pastor's wife (just my background)
When my oldest dd was 4 she changed her name to Jory and was a boy. It was all pretend! I didn't make a big deal out of it at all-actually I don't ever remember having any type of "discussion" about it at all. She knew she was really a girl and that it was all pretend. It lasted about 2 weeks and that was the end of it.
I think maybe everyone's (starting with the parents) blowing this way too far our of proportion and worrying about something that's not even an issue, and probably creating an issue for the child when there wasn't one to start with.
The op hasn't even started care yet and from what I've read there doesn't seem to be any biological issues. Let the child pretend.
My opinion might be different if the OP gave more information on the child and what the parents have done so far.

I wrote as much as I know... I was just hoping I wasn't the only one thinking this way . I am relieved that others would do the same as I plan to do.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Heidi

My sister wanted to be a boy until at least the age of 12. Hated dresses, walked around shirtless until puberty (we are European, so my parents didn't care...lol). She's now married with 4 children

Then, slowly as puberty hit...and boys came into play, things changed. She named her first child Tiffany, of all things (I would have expected Bobbi or Toni from her).

We went to Goodwill on Sunday and she is SO happy about the sundress she "scored" for $6.99.

I guess I'm in the camp that you should try to use her name as much as possible. Typically, you are not going to be using gender pronouns to talk TO her, so it's only when you are talking ABOUT her that's it's an issue.

Maybe she's transgender, maybe not. I was pretty sure I was princess until I was 5 or 6. When I was 15, I dreamed of meeting Graham Russell of the band Air Supply on the beach in Australia, where he would fall hopelessly in love with me.

As for the parent's being confused...duh! Their 4year old is telling them she wants to be a boy, and they don't WANT her to be different; to be ridiculed and ostricized. They WANT her to be "normal" (our family motto is there is no normal). But, they are afraid that they may damage her forever if they deny her the this identity. Heck ya, I'd be confused!

I am extremely excepting of Gay and Lesbian people. Yet, when MY 15 yo daughter claims that she's "BI", I'm still nervous and worried. I know it will make her life harder. So I guess it's all fine and good until it's MY child?

Even now, I'm taking a wait-and-see approach, because she's also in no hurry to get into ANY relationship, fortunately. Right now, she claims to have a GF, but said GF lives 2000 miles away, and they can only talk via electronic means.

So...meanwhile, I try to keep my feelings out of it and support her, keeping the lines of communication open.

Thank you so much for your openness!
I plan to work closely with the mom as to how to deal with this.
It's ultimately her decision and I will tell her point blank that I will not refer to her as "he" then she can decide if she wants to bring her or not.
I think she will.

[Kelly]

I am not a Christian--I am an atheist so maybe my opinion doesn't counton this subject but if you believe that God has a reason for everything he does, then you believe that he has a reason that my sons were born with Down Syndrome or that other children are born without limbs or with disabling diseases and conditions or even born dead, right. So by that reasoning couldn't a child be born transgender for some purpose too? I'm not saying that this particular child is transgender. Maybe it's a phase, maybe pretend or maybe he really is. Whatever it is, his feelings should be respected. I would call him "he" or whatever if that was his and his family's wish. As far as it causing confusion for the other DCKs, look at it as a good opportunity to teach them that everyone is different and should be accepted and respected as they are.

[clep]

When I have a day home child playing a dog for example and I call them he, she or their name I have not once had them upset about that. The OP says the girl get's upset if she is addressed as she.

Pretend play is great, but I am not about to be corrected by a four year old upset about it if I get it wrong.

The fact that the parent feels a need to bring this up says to me that this has been going on for some time. Do you know how long the child has insisted on this?

I would not address the child as the wrong gender. One reason is that I have other children that are just learning about genders and that would probably confuse them. I just had a little girl today recognize that a boy in my day home is in fact a boy. She is at that developmental stage, and it need not be confusing for her. Also, she is not a boy so I would not address her as such.

The child can call herself whatever she wants, and so can the parents. I will not be dictated to and corrected for my personal choices.

[Michelle]

Well, I met with them, wonderful kids and very sweet mom.
Apparently this has a name, it's called gender dysphoria of childhood.
I was given a letter from a psychiatrist that I am not to try to change her feelings about her decision or discriminate against her.( never planned on it) Interesting though that the letter did use the words she and her when talking about the child, so I just plan to call her by her name, which by the way is a very pretty name and she does accept that, so again I really appreciate all of your help and very thoughtful posts.

[familyschoolcare]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Apparently this has a name, it's called gender dysphoria of childhood.

I was going to post ssimiliar info. I just got.

My husband who has some medicail training/experienc. Also said that there a case he has heard of lots of pappers about it exctera. where a child born to look like a girl that from the time she could talk was saying she was a boy. Always when ever it came up I am a boy I am a boy. Then when the child hit purburity all the boy parts dropped and appeared and the child was now a boy.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by familyschoolcare

I was going to post ssimiliar info. I just got.

My husband who has some medicail training/experienc. Also said that there a case he has heard of lots of pappers about it exctera. where a child born to look like a girl that from the time she could talk was saying she was a boy. Always when ever it came up I am a boy I am a boy. Then when the child hit purburity all the boy parts dropped and appeared and the child was now a boy.

wow, yea I have watched shows on the medical channel about this.
Maybe she should have an ultrasound or a blood test to see if she has this.

[momofsix]

Originally Posted by Michelle

Well, I met with them, wonderful kids and very sweet mom.
Apparently this has a name, it's called gender dysphoria of childhood.
I was given a letter from a psychiatrist that I am not to try to change her feelings about her decision or discriminate against her.( never planned on it) Interesting though that the letter did use the words she and her when talking about the child, so I just plan to call her by her name, which by the way is a very pretty name and she does accept that, so again I really appreciate all of your help and very thoughtful posts.

So glad you got to meet with them and that they were wonderful and that they're enrolling in your daycare. I think the fact that you've shown such concern for the child and this "issue" shows that she will be well cared for by you and is blessed to be in your care.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by momofsix

So glad you got to meet with them and that they were wonderful and that they're enrolling in your daycare. I think the fact that you've shown such concern for the child and this "issue" shows that she will be well cared for by you and is blessed to be in your care.

aw, thank you
my family has been praying for this angel every night this week.

[Texasjeepgirl]

I just saw this on CNN.. and remembered this thread from last week...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/living...html?hpt=hp_c3

[SilverSabre25]

So glad you met with them and got a straight story!

glad to hear that they're enrolling. Good luck!

[Michelle]

well today was their first day and I had them for an hour..(she has a twin sister) and the arrangement was to watch them for an hour and then take them to head start. So, I walked them in the classroom and the teachers all gushed over her very girly twin saying "little miss beautiful is here!" and the other child just walked over and sat down to play with toys and got no attention what so ever! I wanted to say something but I am just going to watch and listen for a week and see if they continue this.
I am so sad right now, I wish I can have them all day.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Texasjeepgirl

I just saw this on CNN.. and remembered this thread from last week...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/27/living...html?hpt=hp_c3

thanks, that was very interesting.
it's funny because my dd 20 loves star wars and she is very girly!

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by Michelle

well today was their first day and I had them for an hour..(she has a twin sister) and the arrangement was to watch them for an hour and then take them to head start. So, I walked them in the classroom and the teachers all gushed over her very girly twin saying "little miss beautiful is here!" and the other child just walked over and sat down to play with toys and got no attention what so ever! I wanted to say something but I am just going to watch and listen for a week and see if they continue this.
I am so sad right now, I wish I can have them all day.

That IS sad. I thought ECE teachers (especially HS) aren't suppose to "assign" labels like that to a child. Just because they are BOTH beautiful, shouldn't mean only one of them gets attention for it. They should be saying how wonderful it is that BOTH children are there!

I would probably mention that to the kids' mom as that is kind of rude in general. Acknowledge BOTH children and not with labels that are physical. I mean we surely wouldn't say "Oh look the ugly kid is here!" ....which is what the other child probably heard in unspoken words.

[Willow]

Originally Posted by Michelle

So, I walked them in the classroom and the teachers all gushed over her very girly twin saying "little miss beautiful is here!" and the other child just walked over and sat down to play with toys and got no attention what so ever! .

Maybe that's why she's doing it? Maybe she doesn't *want* that kind of attention? Whether it's a mere annoyance to her for everyone to ooooh and aawweeee over her (social anxiety? maybe she has a hard time with the attention?) or a flat out rejection of femininity because she wants to differentiate herself from her twin....as soon as you said twin I went aaaaahhhh, ok, there could be something with that for sure. If so it's obviously working for her.


Further and less likely but I wanted to mention it now that you took her on and obviously are set to look out for her - I took a training once for my foster care license that discussed things like gender dysphoria (intentional rather than the result of confusion) in regards to a child being abused. A female child perpetuating male behaviors/stereotypes in an attempt to ward off unwanted advances from those interested in "pretty little girls."

Extremely unpleasant to contemplate but it does happen. I had one in my care once. She had to be taught that brushing the knots out of her hair, wearing something other than a mans size XL shirt and smelling like something other than her pee or poop wasn't an invitation for her to get hurt.


I'm sure after awhile you'll sort out whether the issue is a benign or more serious one.

In the meantime if you were interested I don't think it would hurt to help her find some ways to boost her confidence and help her feel more like an individual. Sort out what her strengths are, help her find her niche....is it painting, drawing, building, imaginative play, being your helper, singing or dancing...once you sort it out play it up. If it's just a phase it'll pass a lot faster if she sees she can get attention for behaving in other ways. If it's not it'll at least help build your bond which could be important to helping her overcome whatever is the real root cause of what's going on.

[countrymom]

I wonder if she is regressing from having a twin. Maybe she wants to be different and the parents treat her like her twin.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Willow

Maybe that's why she's doing it? Maybe she doesn't *want* that kind of attention? Whether it's a mere annoyance to her for everyone to ooooh and aawweeee over her (social anxiety? maybe she has a hard time with the attention?) or a flat out rejection of femininity because she wants to differentiate herself from her twin....as soon as you said twin I went aaaaahhhh, ok, there could be something with that for sure. If so it's obviously working for her.


Further and less likely but I wanted to mention it now that you took her on and obviously are set to look out for her - I took a training once for my foster care license that discussed things like gender dysphoria (intentional rather than the result of confusion) in regards to a child being abused. A female child perpetuating male behaviors/stereotypes in an attempt to ward off unwanted advances from those interested in "pretty little girls."

Extremely unpleasant to contemplate but it does happen. I had one in my care once. She had to be taught that brushing the knots out of her hair, wearing something other than a mans size XL shirt and smelling like something other than her pee or poop wasn't an invitation for her to get hurt.


I'm sure after awhile you'll sort out whether the issue is a benign or more serious one.

In the meantime if you were interested I don't think it would hurt to help her find some ways to boost her confidence and help her feel more like an individual. Sort out what her strengths are, help her find her niche....is it painting, drawing, building, imaginative play, being your helper, singing or dancing...once you sort it out play it up. If it's just a phase it'll pass a lot faster if she sees she can get attention for behaving in other ways. If it's not it'll at least help build your bond which could be important to helping her overcome whatever is the real root cause of what's going on.

I think you got it exactly... as far as wanting to be different than her twin. Even her mom said that she thinks this is what is happening.
She is definitely talked over by her sister and just "exists" I am trying to bring her out.
This morning I asked each of them what their favorite ride at Disneyland is and The girly twin talked on and on and then the other one opened her mouth to talk and then her sister said. he likes the buzz light year ride.Then she wouldn't let her talk at all.
So, i am definitely going to work on this.
Having her be my helper etc. is excellent advice.

[SunshineMama]

I have read through a few of the other responses and wanted to offer my opinion as well.

As a Christian, I do believe that God made everyone the way that was supposed to be. That includes body, AND mind. We do not know why people are born the way that they are born, but it is not our job to judge them.

If you are uncomfortable calling an anatomically correct female a "he," then just use the child's name. You do not know if the child is going through a stage or if their brain is physiologically wired to feel male. There are many LGBT individuals who have always known they were different since childhood. How sad would it be if this child were to feel mistreated because of how they were born.

As Chrisstians, it isn't our job to judge or condone. It is our job to provide the best loving care possible to these children who rely on us. Call the child by their name and leave it at that. Ultimately, it is up to the child's family how they want to proceed. Just make sure that each and every child always feels welcomed and loved and special

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Willow

Maybe that's why she's doing it? Maybe she doesn't *want* that kind of attention? Whether it's a mere annoyance to her for everyone to ooooh and aawweeee over her (social anxiety? maybe she has a hard time with the attention?) or a flat out rejection of femininity because she wants to differentiate herself from her twin....as soon as you said twin I went aaaaahhhh, ok, there could be something with that for sure. If so it's obviously working for her.


Further and less likely but I wanted to mention it now that you took her on and obviously are set to look out for her - I took a training once for my foster care license that discussed things like gender dysphoria (intentional rather than the result of confusion) in regards to a child being abused. A female child perpetuating male behaviors/stereotypes in an attempt to ward off unwanted advances from those interested in "pretty little girls."

Extremely unpleasant to contemplate but it does happen. I had one in my care once. She had to be taught that brushing the knots out of her hair, wearing something other than a mans size XL shirt and smelling like something other than her pee or poop wasn't an invitation for her to get hurt.


I'm sure after awhile you'll sort out whether the issue is a benign or more serious one.

In the meantime if you were interested I don't think it would hurt to help her find some ways to boost her confidence and help her feel more like an individual. Sort out what her strengths are, help her find her niche....is it painting, drawing, building, imaginative play, being your helper, singing or dancing...once you sort it out play it up. If it's just a phase it'll pass a lot faster if she sees she can get attention for behaving in other ways. If it's not it'll at least help build your bond which could be important to helping her overcome whatever is the real root cause of what's going on.

wow! that is so sad about the abuse and that poor child.
I have heard that some women that are victims of rape or molestation gain a lot of weight to avoid being hurt again. Most of the time subconsciously.

[countrymom]

Originally Posted by Michelle

I think you got it exactly... as far as wanting to be different than her twin. Even her mom said that she thinks this is what is happening.
She is definitely talked over by her sister and just "exists" I am trying to bring her out.
This morning I asked each of them what their favorite ride at Disneyland is and The girly twin talked on and on and then the other one opened her mouth to talk and then her sister said. he likes the buzz light year ride.Then she wouldn't let her talk at all.
So, i am definitely going to work on this.
Having her be my helper etc. is excellent advice.

this may sound stupid, but do you think the girly twin is brain washing the other twin, like telling her that she is a boy, and stuff.

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by countrymom

this may sound stupid, but do you think the girly twin is brain washing the other twin, like telling her that she is a boy, and stuff.

I don't know ... today is the first day, but I will definitely be watching out for that! Both girls are beautiful and have a wonderful personality. I am trying to bring out the best in both of them.
Good observation!

[Michelle]

Originally Posted by Blackcat31

That IS sad. I thought ECE teachers (especially HS) aren't suppose to "assign" labels like that to a child. Just because they are BOTH beautiful, shouldn't mean only one of them gets attention for it. They should be saying how wonderful it is that BOTH children are there!

I would probably mention that to the kids' mom as that is kind of rude in general. Acknowledge BOTH children and not with labels that are physical. I mean we surely wouldn't say "Oh look the ugly kid is here!" ....which is what the other child probably heard in unspoken words.

I know, I was very shocked!
Someone with just a high school psychology class knows not to do that!
I will definitely talk to the mom if I see this again.

[familyschoolcare]

Maybe God knew (ok his always does) what he was doing when he brought thise grils to you. I think the whole s/he thing with the one child is a complex issue and there is almost no way to know what the issue realy is. I will keep this in my prayers. regurdless to what the "issue" is a confiendnce boast could not hurt.

[itlw8]

My Christion perspective ??? Christ said to accept everyone. Did he not accept thee thief and the prostitute. Where does it say to exclude people anywhere in the bible.

So To me this has Nothing to do with being a Christion... I refer to all children by their name The one they go by even if it is Bunny. or sissy


MY Mom is known by Johnny somehow I never thought as it being a guys name.

Now I doubt I would call her a boy but I would not make a big deal about it either.

[Blackcat31]

Originally Posted by itlw8

MY Mom is known by Johnny somehow I never thought as it being a guys name.

Now I doubt I would call her a boy but I would not make a big deal about it either.

My DD's name is Ryan. Yep...spelled just like a boy but she is far from it.

Now days...names are so odd and unsual that I think anything goes. My brother's name is Cody but we always called him "Beezer"...he still goes by that name and he is in his mid 30ies.

[MissAnn]

Originally Posted by Michelle

I think you got it exactly... as far as wanting to be different than her twin. Even her mom said that she thinks this is what is happening.
She is definitely talked over by her sister and just "exists" I am trying to bring her out.
This morning I asked each of them what their favorite ride at Disneyland is and The girly twin talked on and on and then the other one opened her mouth to talk and then her sister said. he likes the buzz light year ride.Then she wouldn't let her talk at all.
So, i am definitely going to work on this.
Having her be my helper etc. is excellent advice.

I have a twin sister. I also have 5 other sisters and two brothers. I have heard it said before that kids will take on a role that is not yet taken in a family. For instance...since my twin got all A's.....I took on a different role and got OK grades but certainly not all A's. She was studios and quiet while I am more social and loud mouthed :-( Not sure if this could play a part in it or not...but if her twin is ultra girly.....she might have subconciously felt she could not compete and took on an opposite role. Not that I know what I'm talking about...just rambling.....

[daycare]

Originally Posted by MissAnn

I have a twin sister. I also have 5 other sisters and two brothers. I have heard it said before that kids will take on a role that is not yet taken in a family. For instance...since my twin got all A's.....I took on a different role and got OK grades but certainly not all A's. She was studios and quiet while I am more social and loud mouthed :-( Not sure if this could play a part in it or not...but if her twin is ultra girly.....she might have subconciously felt she could not compete and took on an opposite role. Not that I know what I'm talking about...just rambling.....

I hear all kinds of stuff...I have MANY members in my family and its on both sides..my mom and my dad.

The only thing that I have found to be common is that out of all 9 gay members of my family, all of them but two are the last born child.

My sister is (however once married to a man) and she is older
and my dads younger brother is, but not the youngest of his siblings. the rest are last born children in the family