So DCM who I had to work with on trusting me and fight to sleep train DCG who was 12 months and left me for a provider that was only charging her $30 a week. Guess what? She just texted me and wants to start again tomorrow. Things were not all bad with her, she was just so overprotective, we worked some of the things out. I told her to come talk to me tonight. All she said in text is that the "babysitter" isn't doing what she is supposed to. Whatever that means. I guess the answer if I will take her back or not depends on the details of the situation. I am down to no kids, have one part time temporary boy starting next week, and need kids. But I want to find out what is up first because I don't intend for her to be temporary again. And depending on what happened with the "babysitter" I may not want to involve myself.

What questions would you be asking this mom? Would you make any demands of her? Just in general IF you took her back how would you decide that and how would you handle it? She left on mostly good terms. She didn't give a two week notice but didn't ask for any refund of paid fees or deposit either.

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Don't do it! I get that the "babysitter" isn't doing things the way she wants, but neither were you- she wanted you to be cheaper, kwim?

If you go along with this, it's entirely possible she will drop you if she finds a better price. If you really need this dck, lock her into a two week's notice policy so she doesn't abruptly leave.

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If you take them back:

Be very clear on your expectations (contract, payment, your rules - if I remember correctly she had issues with food?). Any other areas that were unclear or issues - get that straightened out first.

Payment up front (which by the way have your rates increased ). Work on the 2 week deposit (maybe set up a payment plan).

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Honestly, I wouldn't take her back. There are very few reasons for a parent leaving that I'd overlook to consider taking them back. Losing a job, major health problems, that sort of thing. But if they dropped me because they (think) they found something better - no way. And her saying the new person "isn't doing what she's supposed to" is just another red flag - to me that means "she's not doing what I want her to"

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Yes I had issues with her with food. She didn't want me to feed her DD goldfish at snack one day, and the same day she got upset because I don't serve Koolaid. I really need the money coming in. I am going to talk to her in a little bit when she comes and see. But my handbook and contract have been changed due to her.

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You might consider taking her if you really need kids, because sometimes it is easier to get more kids when you already have some. Then, if is not working out, once you have more kids, you could always term if it doesn't work out. Especially if you get new inquiries from your recent booth, it might be nice to already have kids enrolled as the inquires start rolling in. Good luck!

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Can you take her on a probationary period? Having the income again would be tempting. I'd only give her one shot at this though. Make your expectations very clear.

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On the survival note - I would take her back. Use her child to take amazing promotional pictures. It will help bring in other parents. As soon as you have 2-3 more families, then term unless she has completely changed

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This is what I am doing. And I have a grandmother paying to drop off first payment and enrollment tomorrow for her grandson. He is starting Sunday. The hours with this one are not prime since she works at Wal-mart, but her grandson will only be with her for two months. I am doing it since it is temporary. Grandma seems so easy to work with. Hopefully these two will carry me until something else happens.

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$30 per week?!
Who can describe me WHY?!!! people do it?

PS I'm so sorry for off topic

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I have no clue. I am not sure if she was providing food or not. What I do know is that Dad's work schedule changed. He is working days now due to an injury and will go back to nights in a month or so. Apparently yesterday (first day of this) she had told mom she would not be available until and hour later than needed when they discussed earlier drop off. Today, DCM went to the door and there was a teenager there she didn't know who said she was subbing, and that the provider would be there later. DCM was not okay with that as she hadn't been told and she had not met this teenager. DCM knows my DD and she subbed once for me with this mom. I can see her being upset by not being told.

I do know why she choose the $30 a week care, she is scraping to get by and planning to move in with dad soon, and is not getting state daycare because their combined income will be to high for it. I am giving her this last chance, but if she "dumps" me again I am done with her.

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I hope for your sake, this go round is much better then the first.

On a side note, what did DCM expect for $30 per week. Even if the provider wasn't providing food, you get what you pay for.

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That is exactly what hubby said, and what I thought. But I promise you we get flamed on this board for saying that. And I guess some may say that about me because I have lowered my rates from $100 a week to $60 for now to get some families in. But I give good, quality care for that. Just that nobody here wants to pay for it. Our area is financially depressed for sure, but I am as low as I can go and provide healthy meals and snacks, arts and crafts and other activities and still make a little money.

DH told me tonight I am to low, I am not making enough for hour. I had to remind him nobody can pay it. He forgets how expensive it is, because once we married I was always home with the kids even when we had to sacrifice for me to be.

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I agree with Amy.
There are VERY few situations in which I'd consider taking a family back and the second I read "new provider isn't doing what she is suppose to" a little voice in my head screamed:



"RUN!!!!!!!!"

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...because it's insulting to some. (bolded)

Based on what you just said (underlined above), it should be insulting to you as well.

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Well it isn't insulting I don't think. It is just stating fact. When you choose care with someone who isn't even really running a business, you get what you pay for, which is a cheap babysitter. When someone wants to put the work in, have a handbook and contract, etc there is a fee for all that and someone has to pay it.

I am pretity cheap really, but I cut costs in other ways by making my own laundry soap, making my own clorox wipes, hanging laundry on the line to dry, cooking from scratch. I do all that for my family to keep our cost of living down. But I do keep up with the business end of things, which parents pay for in an enrollment fee and such. I guess for the people around her who do things that way it seems they are not doing "childcare" just making a buck or two. I saw a post on facebook a lady looking for care for three kids. A lady responded that she could to it for $10 a day, I thought well low but okay. Then the posted "oh and $10 a day is for one child or three all the same $10 per day". The only way she can make any money on $10 a day filling three slots is by taking more kids than she is supposed to IMO.

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So what you are saying below then is you lowered the quality of care you will be providing now for $60 a week compared to the level of quality you used to offer for $100 a week?

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Thrifty, are you charging at least what others in your area are charging? Just thinking about such a drastic drop of $40. I am licensed for 12 kids. My philosophy is I would rather have 7 that paid what I wanted to charge than to have 12 that didn't follow my contract/handbook. Years ago, I always tried to stay cheaper than the centers but not anymore. I, too, am in a high unemployment area and the majority of my clients work outside my county, but parents will learn that they get what they pay for. I don't get every client that interviews here but most of the time, when I do enroll the client, they stick around until Kindergarten. When your business gets rolling I feel you will, too, but the $40 drop is huge....that is why I am asking if $60 is the normal fee for your area. If it is higher, do not lower your standard to get enrollment. Best wishes

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Well, I certainly don't mean to insult anyone

My thought is that there is a big difference between lowering prices to accommodate your specific area and offering a low price because you want to make a quick buck without having to put in any work. There are providers out there who are on the lower end of their areas price scale and do a wonderful job. There are also providers who are on the higher end of their areas price scale and do a terrible job. However, when someone is making .60 cents an hour (assuming DCG was in the previous provider's care for an average of 50 hours per week) before taxes and business expenses I would assume she is not going to put much pride into what she does.

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Wait. She as paying $6 per DAY?! I misread and thought you said 30 per day.
Holy crap. $6 a day. I can't even justify getting out of bed for that.
Wow. I'm befuddled.

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No I am not saying I have lowered my quality of care. What I am saying is I am still charging enough to make money and keep a program. I guess you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because no one I can think of is going to pay money to watch other people's children. At $6 a day there is no way you can afford any curriculum, any new toys or equipment, any decent food. Heck milk in this area is over $3 a gallon. So what I am saying is at a point you go so low it will cost you money to do this if you offer any program at all. I lowered my rates to a point that I can have a program and still make a little money. No I am not going to get rich right now, but then again that isn't my dream anyway.

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Rates in my area vary a ton. The average is 20-25 a day. But many are charging by the day and not by the week, so if you miss a day you don't pay for it. I am not willing to do that, I would rather have steady income that I can count on. But with the legally unlicensed thing her, we have a ton of SAHM's doing it dirt cheap but just "watching" kids. Meaning no program at all. No arts and crafts, no learning, just an adult to hang around basically. They don't offer any contracts, so in the case of this DCM, just don't open the door if they choose not to work one day and say "oh I can only work a couple of hours today" the next. And by facebook posts, it appears that many of these SAHM's are taking more than the six (including there own) they are allowed to have. But that is a whole other conversation that ticks me off, I stay legal and I don't like people who knowingly don't.

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i would take them back and I would tell dcm this.

glad you got to see that the grass was not greener on the other side.

I see that you didn't like the way the babysitter worked out, but something that i am concerned about is:

1. you want things ran your way, that won't be possible here and heres why
2. you will leave again once you find cheaper care, here is why
3. state your other concerns.

I would require a $350.00 deposit and a 90 day min contract. if she leaves before the 90 days are up she looses all $350.00

I started the 90day contract when people started enrolling at the start of summer and pulling at the end. their preschool closed for summers, so I was the fill in. No more, never again. So I have this clause in place now.

I would also lay down the law and tell her that the you will run the show. If she is not on board, then RUN..

I had a first time parent do this to me, come back and they are still here. I think some people just don't know what to expect...


good luck

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Well I did take her back, the DCG is awesome except at naptime. I had that a long way toward better, but today it seems like I lost all that. I am afraid she is going to leave again for cheaper care. She told me she isn't. I told her if she does, she can't come back here again after that. A large deposit would be nice, but she can't afford it. She qualifies for state assistance with child care, but her and dad are trying to get an apartment together. She has been working on that with an income apartment for awhile, but it hasn't happened yet. When they do move in together she has already been told their income will be to much for the daycare assistance.

I am taking a chance on this, but at least I know going in this time. We shall see.

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Why not apply for assistance now? If she eventually taps out, fine. What if there is a change in the meantime, or they grandfather people in? It happens. In her shoes (and yours), I'd lock in what assistance she can get.

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I totally get what you are saying, I am just trying to make a point that quality has nothing to do with cost.

Many providers do not have the same expenses so to equate cost to those things makes no sense.

I don't buy curriculum, do not have to buy new toys and/or equipment and have food costs covered via the food program so none of those things effect my rates.

I am not trying to give you a hard time ...I am simply speaking from perspective... like Baby Beluga said there are many expensive programs out there that suck and many low cost providers that are fantastic!!! It's the quality of care and services offered that matter NOT the rate.

Perfect example is the lady who lives down the block from me. I've used her as an example before. She watches kids for pennies. She might not even charge them at all but her program is FABULOUS!! Probably one of THE best in the area. If others judged her based on her rates (or her lack of) it would be sad.

Anyways, I am out... we can agree to disagree.
I just didn't think it was fair to make a sweeping generalization and assume it applied to everyone.

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I guess I am a little confused too. If the average rate is $20-25 a day, then why would you charge $60 per week? That is only $12 per day, which is very close to what the SAHMs are charging, so why undersell yourself if you are offering a program and more than just watching kids? If the myth is that you get what you pay for, why put your self in that category? I may be misunderstanding, but if a daycare was only charging $10 to $15 a day, when the average is $20+, I would question what my money is paying for. I know many people who charge very little and provide excellent care, but I think pricing your care too low can be VERY bad for business. Again, sorry if I am missing something, but I could just never do my job for $60 a week. Bills or not, I would rather work at Mcdonalds than put in 50+ hours a week for pennies.

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I don't accept the assistance. There are few in home providers that do, there are centers here that do. But when dad goes back to work on second shift some nights she has to work until 6:30 and our centers close by then. So I think that is part of it. Part of being legally unlicensed in Ohio means you can't take state subsidy, not sure I want to anyway they only pay for hours used so if parents just don't show up for a day or three I wouldn't get paid,.

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Maybe people aren't signing on with you then because your rates are so low? Especially if theyve seen you advertise at a higher rate before. Maybe theyre thinking you get what you pay for.

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Many of the people I have interviewed have told me I am to high. It is really a matter of all the SAHM's charging so little. Like the one who said she would watch 3 kiddos for $10 a day. People have told me that some of these people don't offer what I do, but they can't afford to pay more. I really don't understand why then they don't get state assistance. Most the people who call me work, fast food, grocery store or temporary work and are on the lower income scale. There are not a ton of good jobs around here. But I refuse to lower my program to what I have been told some others are doing just to get more kids. It saddens me that people will take the attitude that it is okay just to have an adult around with their child with no real "care". But the fact we can be legally unlicensed means that this can happen. In the end it is for the parents to choose, I just wish they would choose better. I know if I get one or two really good families in, word of mouth will work wonders for me. I am hoping that happens with this grandmother who just signed her grandson. He is temporary while she has him for the summer but she works at WM, so may know a lot of people needing care. The way I see it when people find I am an awesome provider they will knock down my door. I hope.

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i get what you are saying that parents say your prices are too high, but you have to sell yourself.

I am only $25.00 cheaper than a very elite private academy, yes I know stupid for preschool but it is there and parents love it.

HOw can I do this Easy i sell my program to them.

They are closed all summer and have 3 major breaks, i don't.
they are only open until 430, I am open until 5

they won't take kids that are not PTrained, I will

They don't provide home cooked meals, I do.

I will provide consistent staff the entire time they are here I will be here, preschools can't offer that.

How do I compare with stay moms. Most of them do it for extra cash and then burn out within 9months to 1 year

they don't offer learning, consistency, routines and etc. they are a baby sitting service, you are not.

stay at home mom's are at home to be with their kids, not yours. So their childs everything will come first and the parent better be prepared to have to have back up care quite a bit.

You have been open for x amount of year with x amount of experience, most mom's don't have that on us.

I love stay at home moms, but they are not in the biz like we are. I applaud them for what they can do with their kids and take on a few more to make a little side money.


you get what I am saying.....You need to prep yourself with a come bac.

this mom left you for cheap and now she probably understands sometimes, you get what you pay for.

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See that is the part I am not good at the pointing out why I am better. Thanks for these ideas! I do plan to raise my rates some once I get my name more out there. In Kansas, I had little trouble filling spots, but got a lot of problem parents daycare jumpers, non-payers, people who thought they ran my program (and to a point I let them). It was a big reason why I quit (and we couldn't do both daycare and foster care and we did foster care for awhile). But I am stricter now and I know that is part of the reason some of my interviews have not worked out. I flat refuse now to "work" for the parents and cater to everyone. I know for a fact that is why two didn't work out. One rescheduled her final interview four times and I said nope, I am done lol. But I am trying to save myself some headaches now.

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Then your response should be a firm but gentle:
"No I'm not. I'm licensed, provide quality child care, am on the food program/follow the food program guidelines and serve balanced healthy meals, offer educational activities, and provide quality materials and toys."

Then just offer them a smile and an intense stare

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So, how is the new (old) family doing? Following your new policies?

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Well it is only day two. So we will see. Right now the one issue I am having is breakfast. Mom asked when we talked (since dad is on days for awhile), if DCG doesn't get here until after 8 can she still eat breakfast. I told her no, that she would need to eat at home. So yesterday mom came in at 8:15 and said "she hasn't eaten yet, I was going to get up at 7:45 and be here by 8, but I couldn't move that fast". I told her I would feed her yesterday late, but I won't do it again. So today she comes in at 8:05 and little one had clearly just gotten up (they live a block away). Mom said "I just got her up and she isn't ready to eat breakfast yet but you can feed her in a bit right?". I told her that tomorrow she will be sent back home to feed her if she arrives late for breakfast. I know I am being super strict with this, and some say well just feed the child already. But I feel the need to be strict with this mother and Monday my new DCB is starting and will be here at 6:30 AM some mornings. And I am only willing to make breakfast and clean up the mess once. And DCG is 14 months old so if she is late I have to sit with her while she eats. That isn't fair to anyone in my book. She rolled her eyes at me this morning and I got the big sigh, but I have been working hard on my backbone and I am not giving an inch with this parent.

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I don't blame you for standing firm with this mom. Wow, she has some nerve doesn't she?

That said, I found that offering breakfast as a service was easier for me than dealing with who had and hadn't eaten or kids coming in carrying half eaten granola bars or with a smashed banana in their hand. Plus if I gave them breakfast then I at least knew that being hungry was one less thing they would cry about in the morning.

But, since this is important to you, what I'd do is charge her extra. "Okay, I can do breakfast for an extra $10 a week. Let me know if you want me to provide breakfast." Keep adding charges to things. It's a win-win. You make more money and her child gets breakfast since she 'moves too slow'

Laurel

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I have no issue with providing breakfast since I will have one coming in very early some days starting next week. My main issue is that if you want breakfast, have your child here before my cut off. And don't bring in food from home. All this is in the handbook and we talked about it before she paid to start again. She asked me at the meeting "Well if I bring her at 8:15 you can still feed her breakfast right?". I told her no not a minute after 8. Now both days she has expected it. I am going to stick by it tomorrow if she has not eaten, she is not here until mom feeds her OR she can be here before breakfast cut off. The thing is I don't want more money from her really, I want her to follow my policies. I mean I hate mornings, but when you have kids you get up in time to take care of them right? Or maybe I did parenting wrong.

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Good for you for staying firm.

Seriously...she thinks she can get up at 7:45 and be there by 8? She gets to sleep in, but you have to inconvenience yourself. Real fair. Don't worry about it a bit.

I made a mistake with one family, allowing snack-in-hand when he arrives on Thursdays, because he's super late having just come from a PT appointment. That turned into a baggie of junk food on a daily basis, spilled all over my house, munched on when it's not a mealtime... A firm no at the beginning would have been much easier than trying to fix it after the fact. (And yes, it says no food from home in my handbook, but I was trying to be nice and accommodating...big mistake.)

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I would not do cut off time. I would say breakfast is at 7:30. If you are here, you eat and if not, then snack will be at 9:30, so you will have to wait. If dck whines and is starving, mom can come pick up and feed him. The cut off at 8 would drive me nuts, because she obviously wants to come whenever and showing up at 7:59 is just as bad as 8:05, imo, so don't give her that option.

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I guess I don't see the difference between the two you are saying? I serve at 8, so that is my cut off. Is that what you are saying? Maybe I am doing what you are saying already.

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Oh I see! I thought you served earlier and were done at 8, so that is why I said that!

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