I know there are several providers that will only except children into care for so long of a time during the day. Also, I know there are a few who want their daycare children to have a certain amount of "Face Time" with their parents each evening. My question to those individuals is how do you know that the parents are actually spending quality "Face Time" with the children.

I have children 9-10+ hours a day. It is surprising how many are running all evening from the time they pick the child up till they are actually in bed. A few even go to other sitters in the evening so parents can get things done. Then the next day I get the cranky chldren that haven't slept well, don't want to do anything, won't take naps, etc.

Guess this is where I'm at a loss. Do you ask the parents to have calmer evening, bite the bullet and go with the chaos, or just except this is the new way of parenting. These are all older parents=30+ and not all first children.

By the way this is routine for the kids because they do the same thing every week.

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I can't limit number of hours, here, and keep clients (all my competition have longer hours at same price)....or mandate bedtimes BUT I can use the "I was too tired to participate in **** (fill in blank fun activity), Today " on the daily sheet.

It usually does not take too long for most to catch on.

Have you tried that, yet?

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I'm in the same boat. My kids are often here for that long as well and I know one set of Mom and Dad often have "me time" and babysitters lined up afterwards.

I've been open for less then 2 years and really struggled with this at first. When my children were in daycare, my husband spent a few hours each morning with them beforehand (I went in at 7 so I'd get out at 4) and I'd have a few hours with them each evening. Even with that arrangement, I felt it wasn't enough.

I parent my children the way I feel is best. Others do the same. We do not agree often. I have to tell myself, they are the parents, their children, I do my job the best I can. I have one family who I feel have the option to spend good time with their kids and choose not too. I have another family who has to work long days and it's killing them to be without their kids for this long.

I feel it's unfortunate but common. I don't feel like it's my place to tell them to parent their children (not including neglect, etc obviously). I believe the parents that choose not to spend time with their kids don't do it because they don't know better, they do it because that's what they want to do. Who am I to tell them otherwise? Or more to the point, where would it get anyone if I did?

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I think that we all have this problem. I have been faced with it a lot acutally.

I have one family that the kids are up until midnight or later. The child is here for 10-12 hours days. I have actually sent the this child home one day as I was sick and tired of the child coming all day a hot mess and then cant function while here with the rest of the group. After the group missed library day and park day twice in one week due to this child sleeping or due to the massive behavior issues I actually sent the child home. Parents were still clueless.

Also, when the kids take their books/art home at the end of the week, I will just put the projects in unfinished or blank and write sleeping or unable to participate on them. This has been ongoing for over a year so I know its never going to change...

I think that this is something that we are going to have to deal with and if we don't then we would have to term the child and find a replacement...

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I limit the hours to a max of nine hours. Most of the kids are here around 8.5 hours a day.

I can tell if a kid isn't being parented. I can tell if the parent isn't spending time with the kid. I can tell if the child is being shunned. I can smell it a mile away.

I won't keep a kid who doesn't have a significant amount of daily face time with the parents. It affects our life here so dramatically that I know "I" couldn't manage it. It leaves the kid empty with a void that I can not fill no matter how good I am and how good our life is here.

The first step is making sure they have the TIME with their kids. If you are doing ten plus hours a day there is a really good chance that they don't have much face time.

The next step is not offering services that get them out of parenting. If you allow a kid to come in with jammies, wet diaper, empty belly etc. you will have a parent that doesn't spend time with their child in the morning.

Kids need TIME in the morning before they go out into the world. They accept child care much more readily if they have had a good dose of Mommy and Daddy in the morning.

I expect kids to be fed before they come to child care. I do not allow first bottle or first feeding on my clock. I have heard EVERY excuse in the book about babies and kids not eating before day care and I just don't buy into it. I make it VERY clear that infants need to be fed right before they come to child care. I do NOT accept "he wouldn't eat" or "he ate at four a.m... he may need to eat" or "he started this bottle but he wouldn't finish it". I expect the babies to come COMPLETELY fed before child care every day and the kids age one to five to have had first breakfast at HOME. I don't do the deal of kids being taken out of bed, put in the car seat, and brought to my house. Nan don't play that... at all.

If you get them from birth and the pattern is established that they spend time with them in the morning then by the time the child can self feed they are used to... scheduled to... adapt to having them up in the morning before they bring them to your house. If you allow them to come without doing anything with the child in the morning you will end up with parents who can't manage it when the child gets older.

The next thing I think is important is making sure the child is well rested before they go home. If you allow a kid to be up for ten straight hours at your house there is a really good chance that the kid is dropping dead to sleep really early. If you only keep kids who have a LONG solid afternoon naps then when the parents pick up in the afternoon the kid is awake and ready for three/four hours of time at home.

I don't keep kids who don't need nap. I know the consequences of home life if a kid is exhausted by five pm. I want to send them home rested, alert, afternoon snacked, diaper changed.... and raring to go every day. If I have a parent that asks for our life to change here so that they can eliminate an evening time with their kid it just won't work in my house.

I don't allow parents to pressure me to educate their kids. The parents are their teachers. What we offer here is a supplement NOT their preschool education. I can ALWAYS tell if the parent is doing educational activities with their kid. If they believe it is my job then it won't work. Education never supercedes basic care of supervision, good food, good play, good exercise etc. I do not believe that child care is synonomous (sp?) with early childhood education. I believe that good parenting and good CARE is synonomous with early childhood education.

I don't allow parents to pressure me to have the kids outside doing outside special. We go out for a good hike every day. The water play, playground, sports stuff is for family time not my time.

That's more of a list of what I don't do but I've found that what you don't do is as important as what you do do when it comes to empowering parents and landing parents that care for their own kids with ease and purpose. I have a wonderful group of parents who I respect and admire. All of my kids get a lot of time every day with their parents and it shows on every level of their care from infant to age five. They are easy to take care of because they are parented SO well.

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AWESOME post.

I see a trend happening nowadays where the DAY CARE PROVIDER is expected to pick up the slack and offer more and more of what should be basic parenting. We are taught that the word "babysitter" is dirty and that we are are pre-school teachers, personal shrinks and so on. The parents do less and less....so we are therefore expected to do more and more.

Art projects galore, developmental charts, fancy field trips... ????....what happened to just good old CARE?

Toys. Meals. Naps. Hugs.

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I don't have this problem at all. I have had almost all only children so I think that plays a part. Besides that, I do interview to find parents that parent in a similar style to how I care for their kids. This does not eliminate all problems but it helps a ton. I don't take families that want me to do parenting, thats their job. Like nan said, I don't do the morning routine with them, parents HAVE to breakfast, dress, etc their kids before coming. I also don't let kids nap to where i know they are put to bed as soon as they get home. I also do not take state paid families. I feel bad for saying that but there is a stereotypes with these families that are sadly, true for a good portion of the families (that being that the parents just dump their kid and leave all the caretaking for the dc provider)

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Its funny because all my parents come here because of the activities I offer. I offer field trips, preschool, outdoor exploring, have had a lady come in to do Bible storytime with the children, library time, etc. The majority of my parents are teachers and like that I'm working with their children. The one major thing they all like is that there is a routine and structure. Not alot of tv (unless I'm trying to get snack, lunch) but also its not just free range playing. So maybe since I do offer all of that they don't do alot of teaching at home. They do teach them some but probably not like what Nan is talking about.

I started doing the preschool because I don't do well with them just playing all day long (at least in the house). I love to teach and show them new things, then enjoy seeing their faces when they discover that they understand the concept. We do alot of free range exploring but not just sitting and playing all day long in the house. We are outside playing, crawling, getting down and dirty. So they are getting about 50/50 of inside and outside time. They are exhausted by naptime and sleep pretty deep. I do have a few that do get to tired and then have a hard time sleeping so we are still trying to find the right thing to help them to sleep.

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One of the major reasons I am closing my daycare is for this very lack of face time.

Lack of parenting is crazy out of control in my daycare home. I am exhusted and it is mostly my fault. When I started I promoted myself as this kind of provider....I'll do it ALL!! I now feel VERY much like Nannyde has the right plan.

LOOK OUT Nannyde I am moving to Des Moines in a few months....When I start my family in the next two years if I HAVE to work outside of the home I will be beating your door down to get any children I may have into your program

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I've noticed this too, then I question "why did you have kids"

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Give me a buzz. You KNOW where I am.

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NANNYDE you are never going to believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!

I looked at your website to see just exactly where you were in DSM.....and you are LESS THAN A MILE from where I am going to be moving!!!! I will be on E 37th St.

I nearly fell off of my chair!!!!!

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This is a foreign concept to me! I would never not take a child because their parents were not spending what I considered "enough time" with them. Those kids need me more than any of them! They need the consistency and stability and "face time" I offer. I may be able to educate parents some, but I'll never change their philosophies. I'd rather the kids be with me, who I know loves and cares about them, then carted off to another sitter or sat in front of a TV at home. I'd rather sit and hold and feed an infant than have them propped with a bottle while mom gets ready. Telling someone to feed their kid before they come does not equal quality time with a parent. It would never even occur to me to try to dictate how a parent does things at home or to consider that the way I think things should be done is THE way to do them. In my mind, I offer a service to families. I'm open a set amount of hours a day. I learned a while back that some parents view me as a valuable extension of their family and to some parents I'll never be more than a baby-sitter. I decided it is none of my business what they do between my open and closed hours because they are paying me for those hours. And all I can do is be the best I can be for their children during that time. Maybe I worked in a center too long?? Can you ask a parent to schedule their time at home a certain way? Well, what would you say if they asked you to schedule your day the way THEY wanted you to? I imagine that would go over like a ton of bricks! Even the children with the most CHAOTIC homelives can learn that daycare is the same every day and will adjust to the routine and stability of it!

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I understand when you say that you can not tell the parents what to do at home (and I NEVER have)....and for years I have tried this 'I decided it is none of my business what they do between my open and closed hours because they are paying me for those hours. And all I can do is be the best I can be for their children during that time'

I simpily cannot

I feel that this daycare time in my life is close to comming to an end anyway so I am chosing to walk away. IF I were still interested in daycare I would reshape my program to be more like Nannyde's. I would have some SERIOUS restructuring to do.


Daycare is jsut not for me anyl onger. I can not stand to be the childs main source of care and education. It breaks my heart.

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I did this all the time when I was in the public school system. Most parents took notice and became involved and more concerned about their child's lack of sleeping or unacceptable behavior that was causing them to be unable to finish tasks.

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Blessed,

I see both sides.

I think you get to one side after years of seeing the outcome of the other.

Catch 22, YKWIM? Neither side is ideal, IMHO.

Are we actually helping the kids are we enabling the cycle to continue to yet another generation?

We are an odd species.

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I do not and will not tell my families how to parent their child on their watch. I am not the one to decide if they spend 5 hours or 2 hours a night with their child. That just is NOT my decision to make. I will however let them know if there is a problem at daycare and will offer insight if I believe it stems from home.

I've run my daycare for 10 years, have rarely had a child stay more than 9 hours (I have one currently that I open a half hour early for so he is here 10 hours) and while I know they have busy evenings - I see many of them on the sports fields at night and on weekends - I have NEVER had a child unable to participate in our day because of it. Sure, some come in a little sleepy in the morning, I am too, LOL, but they perk up after a half hour or so and are fine till nap time. They take good naps, etc. I just don't see it as my business what they do in the evenings. I've never had a parent who lets their child stay up till midnight during the week though - I think maybe I've just been blessed with common sense parents all these years.

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This is my philosophy exactly!

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I've been doing this for 25 years and have yet to see the other side!

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Everyone has their own way of running their business...that's the Beauty of it!

I'm not sure how it is feasible to only have a child in daycare for 8.5 hrs/day. My dcps work 8 hrs and have an hr lunch...making their "work" day 9 hrs. In almost every case, they also have a 45 min-1 hr commute each way to and from work. My best case scenario is one parent dropping off and the other picking up, but even with doing that, I still have the child with me 9 hrs. a day. Jobs here are from 7 am to 5 pm. unless they are in retail or the restaurant business and those hours usually don't coincide with mine: 7am-6pm. In a "perfect" world, this idea may work, but in the SF bay area where I live...it simply is not realistic to the way life really is!

In my 25 yrs experience, I have had very few parents who don't spend quality time with their children and I offer an extension of what they do at home. We work as partners and I do the best I can to stimulate, teach through play and activities, while offering a nurturing, loving environment during the time they are in my care. It's been extremely successful and I would NEVER change a thing! This just goes to show you there's never one "right" way to do this!

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I agree that much of parenting is being put off on daycares and schools. I think it is a societal issue, though. Many peple go in to parenthood with that very expectation. Maybe I am wrong, but I don't feel like I can change that. Most kids who NEED the face time with parents in the am aren't going to get it because I tell them they need to eat before arrival! They'll get a donut and a sippy cup of milk lon the way here while the DVD player is going in the back seat. I guess I look at it realistically. Sure, I could interview and weed out all "those" parents and only take kids with upstanding homelives (or who appear to have that on the surface) I worked for years because I had to. Let me tell you, there is not enough time in a day! I read these daycare providers who want the kids to be rested, but also want them up early to have "face time." Well, my kids didn't get it when I worked outside the home! Guarantee you that! I used to dress my son and change his diaper in his sleep, then carry him to the car. Know why? Because I usually let him stay up too late because I missed him during the day and by the time we got home, had dinner, cleaned up, and did bath time, it was time for bed and I wanted to sit and read books or play with my kids - not educational games, either! But, I was not a bad mom!! I'll take this a step further and say I don't even believe women should have to work outside the home! I think it is unnatural for MOST women to have to divide ourselves between caring for our families and working. But, we do what we have to do, right? How many of us are in daycare because it is the next best thing to being SAHMs? I'm ready and willing to fill in the gaps. Do I think it is right? Nope. Do I think parents need more accountability? Absolutely. Am I going to change the world by making them pick their kid up right after work? Not a chance. My belief: I will show the CHILDREN what it means to have a mother figure who face times the heck out of them! I'll fix hair in the am, because I have time to do it without being stressed and rushed. I'll feed them breakfast because I DO have time to sit and talk to them while they eat. And, hopefully I'll make a difference in THEIR lives because they are the next generation of parents. Even my "best" parents don't have a lot of time in the mornings. And I know becaause I'm not judging them so they feel safeenough to be "real" with me. Our country is no longer where we were 30 or 40 years ago. When we take these kids on for 9 or 10 hours a day, in my mind, we ARE signing up to co-raise them.

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Absolutely! I could not agree more with everything you said.

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I am the other side.

I was a "daycare brat" (80's slang for "employees kid") and it is still awkward with my parents....

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I'm not understanding what you mean by this?

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I was making the point, badly , that some providers choose to live and let live while others feel a need to try not to enable this pattern to continue.

IMHO, Both points are just as valid.

As a Mother it makes me sad that kids spend so little time with their parents.

As a provider my income depends on it.

As a daughter I rarely spent any time with my parents during the week and missed out really getting to know them.

Those relationships will never be the same as the one I have with my kids, now. My parents have huge regrets and talk about it all the time.

That is it in a nutshell.

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Understood!

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???? Are you saying your parents did not bond with you correctly and you resented being in daycare? Sounds like you must have had a positive experience with your provider for you to name your daughter after her.

I think it's sad that in this day and age that in most cases, both parents are forced to work. It is very rare to have only income where I live. This was a huge factor why I decided to become a daycare provider, so I could stay home with my own children and still provide an income for my family.

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I'll take this a step further and say I don't even believe women should have to work outside the home! I think it is unnatural for MOST women to have to divide ourselves between caring for our families and working. But, we do what we have to do, right?

I agree with this statement 100%. I can tell you Mondays are by far the VERY worst day of the week for me and having the children come back after a long weekend is even worse! Almost all of my children under age 3 need 2 naps on mondays (morning and afternoon) just to function. It drives me insane! I get them back into a 'routine' by tuesday and then start all over again monday morning ugh!

I opened a daycare to be a SAHM. When my son was 'daycare' age I had ALOT of face time with him. Now that my son is in school I am just ANOTHER WORKING MOTHER. He doesn't get my undivided attention afterschool, I'm too busy with pick ups. We are usually eating on the run after work because I am too busy with errands. When I'm not too busy with errands I'm doing paper work or prep work. When I'm not running errands, doing paper work or prep work we have renovations and a yard to keep up with. And now my husband and I have gym memberships because our weight is getting out of control due to the 'fast' eating any my snacking during the day. That's one more thing on our list of evening to do's. It really never ending!

I 'get' that parents that work long hours don't have much 'face time' with their children. I am only open from 7:30am - 5:15pm (mon - thurs) and 7:30am - 4:30pm (on fridays) so I am not giving parents the opportunity to work really long hours and in the same way it leaves me with extra time in the evenings for my family and my never ending evening to do lists.

Thank God my son loves to run errands with me or I would barely have much time with him in the evenings at all. My weekends on the other hand are 100% for my family and almost every friday night we have a family supper and a family movie.

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That's awesome... not that your relationship with mom/dad is awkward, but that your provider had such a great impact on your life
My hubs goes on and on about a daycare provider he had 20+ years ago... I hope I have that sort of impact on my little guys!!

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I adored my last provider!!! She was wonderful....we were very close until the day she died. I did not know I could resent it, I was a kid. I went until I turned 11.

The issue is that my parents and I never really knew much about each others lives during that time. Home by 7, bed by 8, up at 5. Rush, Rush, Rush.

They see me and my family and realize they have none of the memories, photos, stories, etc. that we share.

I know I am not the only one.....

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Virtual hug Cat!!!! ((((hugs)))

I had never even heard of the word 'daycare' until I had a child of my own. (late 80ies).

I honestly do not think I can name a single friend I had in all my school years growing up that had a daycare to go to after school. If their mom worked outside the home they simply went home.....alone.

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This is so sad... When I was growing up, daycare was completely foreign to me. Everyone I knew had SAHMs and my mom didn't go back to work till I was 15 yo. My dad was a 6th grade teacher and it is amazing to me that they made ends meet living on his salary alone. I grew up 8 miles from where I live now, so the cost of living was extremely high and even though I never went without, we led a simple life and it was good.

Reading the hours that you spent with your parents...."home by 7, bed by 8, up at 5. Rush, Rush, Rush", is another reason why I try to provide those special childhood memories for my dcks. It isn't always a choice a parent is able to make staying home or being able to have lots of "face time" with their kids... it's a huge sacrifice for everyone and definitely has its consequences.

Single moms are all too frequent now a days and I have seen this job as a way to help parents make the best of a difficult situation. I can never be a replacement, but it's my hope and prayer to offer a peace of mind to working parents knowing their child is not missing out on some good old childhood fun!

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I hope that, too!!!!

And, angelwings: ditto! We get the best/worst of both worlds! We are stay at home working mothers!

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We may have been separated at birth! Lol! I was blessed with an amazing childhood and awesome parents! It is my hope that I can pass some of that on to MY kids and my DCKs!

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